Authored by: Deus Ex on Tuesday, April 26 2005 @ 01:53 PM GMT+5

And if that seems a bit over the top -- just Google on "Fiat Money'' and "Fractional Banking". This system is a gamble that has been done THOUSANDS of times in history, and *always* explodes. But the moneychangers/bankers come out richer each time (depressions mean foreclosing on property, and buying up stuff cheap!).

This is not conspiracy nut-job stuff, its simple history.

The politics of conservative/liberal, wars, and etc - may be big deals for us. And are valid concerns for the sake of our personal freedoms, opportunitys, health and etc. But to the big fish (top banks), the politics and the politicians are all just minnows.

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"Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation and I care not who makes its laws.'' -- Mayer Amschel Rothschild

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Familys like the Rothschilds are good at staying under the radar. We focus on the Bill Gates and Donald Trumps of the world, but they are fleeting. The big banking family's/dynastys have been around hundreds of years and don't stick their heads up.

Here is another scary thing. The Federal Reserve. You think its actually ''Federal"? You think they have anything in ''reserve''? :) Look it up.

Authored by: awigo500 on Tuesday, April 26 2005 @ 09:09 PM GMT+5

"The Federal Reserve. You think its actually ''Federal"? You think they have anything in ''reserve''? :)"

Yep. I do think the Federal Reserve is part of the goverment... unless you're implying something else?

And the US eliminated the gold standard long, long ago. There really is no point in keeping billions in Gold locked away. Come on- do you want your life savings tied to the value of a rock? How about to the US economy instead?

Authored by: Deus Ex on Tuesday, April 26 2005 @ 11:06 PM GMT+5

Wow. Ok, you have confirmed you are a ''troll'' here. I hope at least that this is concious trolling and not legitimate empty-headedness!

The Federal Reserve is privately controlled. By 7 banks. Now Congress created it, and can change the laws that govern it. And there are some legitimate reasons for this independance from being directly a government department . . . so that it doesn't become as enslaved to passing political whims ("as'' enslaved being the key there).

You clearly didn't bother to even actually look this up.

Also, "And the US eliminated the gold standard long, long ago." 1971 count as ancient history to you? How old are you? I mean I was a toddler, but thats still not ''long, long ago''!

>>There really is no point in keeping billions in Gold locked away. Come on- do you want your life savings tied to the value of a rock? How about to the US economy instead?<<

Ok, there is no PC way of saying this. This demonstrates complete lack of knowledge and thought on the subject. "Tied to the value of a rock"? Huh? Any solid standard (gold, silver, Bales of Tobacco, Wampums . . . ) is based on the ''rock'' (or whatever) having a *variable* value.

As soon as your money isn't tied to anything legitimate, it becomes monopoly money, the government can just print what they want. And it only has value as long as people *believe* it has value. If that confidence wavers, it becomes useless. Look at German history this century. They untied the Deutsch-Mark from Gold, printed lots of money, all was fine for awhile. Then HUGE crash, money became worth more to burn for warmth . . . Germans became desperate for people to blame and a solution/savior . . . and between Jews and Hitler they fell for it.

Debt is skyrocketing, no plans to even try to reign it in . . . and International confidence in the dollar is dropping. If China, Japan, Europe -- all change to the Euro as their standard trading currancy -- you'll wish you could trade your dollars in for gold still, so that you could trade THAT towards Yen, Euro's or something with value!

Just wait . . . .

Authored by: awigo500 on Wednesday, April 27 2005 @ 12:21 AM GMT+5

"Ok, you have confirmed you are a ''troll'' here"
-
Thanks for the welcome!

"You clearly didn't bother to even actually look this up"
-I did. Here's my findings. (On a side note, what was with the story? Is it supposed to have a point? It might be a little believeable if these people were named, or the place was named, or there was a date, or, anything to show it wasn't completely made up on the spot.)


"You think its actually ''Federal"? "
-
In the 1982 case, Lewis v. United States, the Ninth Circuit Federal Court of Appeals stated "The Reserve Banks have properly been held to be federal instrumentalities for some purposes."
Furthermore:
The Federal Reserve is subject to laws such as the Freedom of Information Act and the Privacy Act which cover Federal agencies but not private corporations.


"Any solid standard (gold, silver, Bales of Tobacco, Wampums . . . ) is based on the ''rock'' (or whatever) having a *variable* value."

Which is why it is foolish to attach the value of your money to it. Why does the value of gold vary? Because electronics equipment sales are up, or because more gold deposites have been found or perhaps more jewlery is being bought.

Why tie the value of your currency to that? How about tieing it to the overall economy of your country? This way the currency fluctuates for reasons tied all over our economy, not because the war in sierra leon ended and the mines restarted.

"the government can just print what they want"
- The goverment prints a controlled amount of currency to help control inflation. If the goverment simply pumped out cash as fast as it could, we would have massive inflation.

"Debt is skyrocketing, no plans to even try to reign it in"
Our public debt in 62.4% of our GDP.
Compare with germany at 64.2%
France @ 68.8%
Canada @ 77%
Japan @ 154% (Yes, they owe more than every good and service they produce in a year.)
Currently, we rank 39th. Our debt is growing, and bigger than other countries- but when it's compared to the production of our economy the size is reasonable. I'd love for us to pay it off- but it's hardly the end of the world.

"Just wait . . . . "
Hungry? Why wait? *Snickers, and laughs at those who call him a troll*



---
A conservative in Vermont!
Ask my opinions, don't assume them.

Authored by: Deus Ex on Wednesday, April 27 2005 @ 12:56 AM GMT+5

THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK IS A PRIVATE COMPANY.

Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution states that Congress shall have the power to coin (create) money and regulate the value thereof. Today however, the FED, which is a privately owned company, controls and profits by printing money through the Treasury, and regulating its value.

The FED began with approximately 300 people or banks that became owners (stockholders purchasing stock at $100 per share - the stock is not publicly traded) in the Federal Reserve Banking System. They make up an international banking cartel of wealth beyond comparison. The FED banking system collects billions of dollars in interest annually and distributes the profits to its shareholders. The Congress (I think illegally) gave the FED the right to print money (through the Treasury) at no interest to the FED. The FED creates money from nothing, and loans it back to us through banks, and charges interest on our currency. The FED also buys Government debt with money printed on a printing press and charges U.S. taxpayers interest. Many Congressmen and Presidents have long said this is fraud.

Who actually owns the Federal Reserve Central Banks? The ownership of the 12 Central banks, a very well kept secret, is of course often rumored and speculated about - top guesses:

Rothschild Bank of London
Warburg Bank of Hamburg
Rothschild Bank of Berlin
Lehman Brothers of New York
Lazard Brothers of Paris
Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
Goldman, Sachs of New York
Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
Chase Manhattan Bank of New York

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You think solid, difficult to fake materials (like gold) is LESS stable and more variable than printed paper then? Huh? That Xanex and booze is hitting you hard! Or maybe they didn't teach economic history and theory at BUHS?

And make all the relativistic excuses you want. We are following an economic pattern which always ends in desperation and tears. Look at this little graph: http://mwhodges.home.att.net/natdebt-vs-natincome.gif

Funny, that line suddenly started to go pretty vertical B-Grade actor was the puppet. And now its gone completely vertical. And these graphics always end up being a bell curve, often with a very short top/horizontal component.

Hey, don't get me wrong though - I'm not doomsaying. Another great depression will maybe give me time to catch up on my reading! We have a farm, with clean water, land, wood, veggies and animals.

How about you?

If you are not potentially self-sufficient, if you eat only from a grocery store . . . some frightening times may lie ahead. Maybe its worth thinking about the future a bit and trying to not just have short term selfish greed/pleasure motivations?

Authored by: Aphrodite on Wednesday, April 27 2005 @ 09:23 PM GMT+5

we are headed for a fall.
We owe too much money over seas.
our debt will consume us.
capitalism has built right into it a tragic flaw.
not a good mix with democracy...
I am sad we are sinking but my god it will help the whole world.
we are lost.......
A.

Authored by: awigo500 on Thursday, April 28 2005 @ 12:34 AM GMT+5

"we are headed for a fall."
-Relax mate, its still april!

"We owe too much money over seas."
-Yea. We keep forgiving their debts by the billion. But they never forget. (They have more elephants)

"our debt will consume us."
-Lets see. People loan money to goverments because they believe they'll get it back. So, appearently, the people who's money is on the line agree that the US is a safe invesment.

All debts need to be compared with how much you make. If I make $100,000 a year, a bank will give me a twenty year loan for $100,000.

The United States produces 10.99 trillion a year. We owe 7-8 trillion. Not a horrible situation. 62.4%
Japan has it much worse- they owe 154% of their gdp

The debt of the goverment and individuals to other countries is 1.4 trillion. 13-14% of our GDP.(Like a car loan)


"capitalism has built right into it a tragic flaw."
-Well, we lasted a good 200 years before this flaw hit us... Better then the soviet 80 or so year run.

"not a good mix with democracy..."
-No? with Monarchs then? Dictatorships? Or are you suggesting democracy is bad too? Lets vote on that!

"I am sad we are sinking but my god it will help the whole world."
-Ahhh that explains our consistent 3% economic growth rate! No wait, it contradicts it. My bad.

"we are lost......."
-Well, I know where I am. Brattleboro Vermont, in front of the computer.

---
A conservative in Vermont!
Ask my opinions, don't assume them.