Authored by: SK-B on Tuesday, May 03 2005 @ 07:59 PM GMT+5

Brattleboro can certainly use an independent, locally owned and controlled newspaper.

Unfortuneatly when I went to the website, there was nothing but an empty page which at least had a comment box, but not even one sentence about the proposed newspaper.

I really does not take that much time to put up at least a single page with a few paragraphs on a website. Seeing an "Under Construction" sign does not make a good first impression. I think it was premature to send out a press release before basic preliminary work was done.

The group working on this project may actually have done a whole lot behind the scenes, and they may actually be much better prepared that the website indicates. However, in order to gain support from potential subscribers and advertisers, it is necessary to be able to show something. There was a sample issue circulated, which looked promising, but not everyone has seen it, and for many who have not, the website will be the first contact.

My wish is for this paper to be excellent, and to succeed.

Authored by: Lise on Tuesday, May 03 2005 @ 10:32 PM GMT+5

The page should be up any day now... Probably tomorrow. I have it on
good authority. Please don't judge them for that.

Authored by: SK-B on Tuesday, May 03 2005 @ 11:23 PM GMT+5

That's great!

I think it is good news that this paper is getting underway. People have been talking about the need for years, and it is certainly a hopeful sign that there is now a group of people who are actually able to get something started.

Authored by: shaw on Wednesday, May 04 2005 @ 04:38 PM GMT+5

Nice logo - still no site as of this writing.

I hope they have better luck than The Voice did. There's a lot to running a paper (esp. if they're going to try to go the non-profit route). Hopefully they'll have all their bases covered.

Authored by: awigo500 on Thursday, May 05 2005 @ 01:24 PM GMT+5

Only a brief look at the first 'sample' edition of the paper shows the true colors of the paper. Ladies and gentlemen, expect no subtle bias. You can expect a liberal bias thicker than pea soup- or maybe peanut butter, slathered 'liberally' over the pages of this publication.

We really don't need another liberal newspaper- we get enough from the Brattleboro Misinformer.


---
A conservative in Vermont!

"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" -Joseph Stalin

Authored by: cgrotke on Thursday, May 05 2005 @ 02:05 PM GMT+5

The Reformer is owned by a friend of George Bush, Dean Singleton. Next
time he is on Main Street, perhaps we can ask him if he thinks it should
be more conservative.

It has become too common to simply say something is no good because
it is "liberal" or "conservative".... those terms mean so little these days.
Some would say iBrattleboro is "liberal" for giving everyone, including
conservatives, a voice. Other would say we're "conservative" for being
controlling censors. I don't think either of those terms really apply to
iBrattleboro.

I judge news sources by whether they are interesting, useful, and accurate.
Knowing the views of the reporter is useful in that pursuit, but I feel smart
enough to navigate bias in favor of facts and information. That's me.
Maybe others need to be told a label before they can come to a
judgement.

Authored by: Maus Anon E on Thursday, May 05 2005 @ 05:11 PM GMT+5

***The Reformer is owned by a friend of George Bush, Dean Singleton. Next time he is on Main Street, perhaps we can ask him if he thinks it should be more conservative.***
I always have to laugh when people call the Reformer "liberal." It either shows how rarely they read it, or how far to the extreme right they must be.
I find the Reformer relatively inert, frankly. It has a utilitarian value. Like any small town paper, it has good moments and not so good moments.
Also like any paper, their basic goal is to be a vehicle with which to sell advertising.

But there's also nothing wrong with alternative newspapers - whether they have a decidedly progressive or conservative leaning. Take the Advocate, for instance. It's an excellent alternative publication. The writing is usually excellent. But don't expect to hear "the other side" in it. That's not what the Advocate is about, and anyone would have to be a fool to expect othewise.
I'd love to see an alternative weekly geared toward southern Vermont.

-Maus

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Authored by: awigo500 on Saturday, May 07 2005 @ 12:12 AM GMT+5

When half of the paper is bashing republicans and those who voted for Bush- and the other half is details about local left wing causes...

They've already labeled themselves.

---
A conservative in Vermont!

"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" -Joseph Stalin

Authored by: awigo500 on Saturday, May 07 2005 @ 12:25 AM GMT+5

I read the rag of parchement every day over breakfast. If you find the Misinformer inert, it's because you're liberal (And from what i've seen of your postings, that is the case). Only someone with no bias would find a paper with no bias to have no bias.(If you follow?)

And yes, a conservative owns the chain of papers that the misinformer is connected to. But he doesn't edit it. He doesn't choose to put the article that unemployment is down on the fifth page, or the article about vermont yankee(an every effin day article- on the front.) No, the local editors do that. The same local editors that write the "Our Opinion" articles- which have all been straightline support of democrat beliefs.

"It has a utilitarian value. Like any small town paper, it has good moments and not so good moments."
-- Of coarse. Nobody can be 100% liberal, all the time. There's simply not a place for it. But if your looking for a leftist's view of anything... it's all between the lines.

"Also like any paper, their basic goal is to be a vehicle with which to sell advertising."
-- Vermont is a liberal state. Why wouldn't they publish leftist articles to sell subscriptions and ads?


---
A conservative in Vermont!

"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" -Joseph Stalin

Authored by: Deus Ex on Saturday, May 07 2005 @ 12:27 AM GMT+5

Might do you some good to read more than the front page, sports, and the editorial section?

But, that being said - shouldn't a paper by and large report on what is happening in its community? Wake up kid, you live in a pretty *liberal* (Gasp!) Community! If the paper was absolutely neutral, and reported evenly on what was happening in this community. It would naturally end up reporting a lot of Liberal (Gasp -- that WORD again!) events.

However, from your previous posts, I suspect that anything short of goose stepping corporate-fundy- fascist-regurgitated-Karl Rovian-cronyism would be labeled ''too liberal'' by you.

When you get out of school perhaps you should consider moving someplace where you'll fit in better - and the papers will tell you what you want to hear. Lubbuck, Texas - theres a place for you! You'd love it!

Then again, its late and I'm feeling grumpy! ;-)

Authored by: Maus Anon E on Saturday, May 07 2005 @ 05:32 PM GMT+5

***If you find the Misinformer inert, it's because you're liberal.***
Labels are fun aren't they? And easy. I'm a liberal. Hell, I'm practically a Trotskyite.
And reporters are all liberal. The Reformer editor must be a liberal. It's that old "liberal media conspiracy" BS that people love to blather on about. It's a fantasy, in fact in my view, the mainstream media has become little more than a propaganda tool for the right wing. But despite their dominance of the media, conservative pundits still howl every time they read something that fails to propound their right-wing view. It's little more than the machinations of the right-wing's so-called "think tanks." It's ridiculous.

It appears you see everything on a conservative/liberal basis. Which is too bad. Sometimes you have to look at what's in front of you with a more sophisticated eye. Could there be another reason the story on national unemployment is on page five, and Vermont Yankee is page one? Think about it.
And then try to imagine the editor, apparently with little else to do, carefully planning the placement of dozens of articles on a daily basis to achieve a carefully crafted political message. All without the knowledge of his conservative bosses. It’s laughable.

***"It has a utilitarian value. Like any small town paper, it has good moments and not so good moments."
-- Of coarse. Nobody can be 100% liberal, all the time***
See, I wasn't talking about political bias there. I have been known to be coarse, however. ;-)

***The same local editors that write the "Our Opinion" articles- which have all been straightline support of democrat beliefs.***
Well, it's hardly shocking that they haven't come out in support of Republican beliefs. You don't have to be liberal or a democrat to reject what passes for Republican "ideals" lately.

***Vermont is a liberal state.***
Yes, I see your "A conservative in Vermont!" signature. But that's actually a relatively recent development. Vermont used to be almost solidly Republican - albeit Vermont Republicans usually represented the liberal wing of the party (a la George Aiken). In fact, before you pigeon hole me, you should know I come from a long, long line of Vermont Republicans.
But don't suppose all of those people have disappeared. Some of them, believing the national Republican Party has left them behind with its focus on the extreme right and the religious factions, have become independents or conservative Democrats (think Jeffords).
But some of them have soldiered on, and there are even those who still run on the Republican ticket locally. It's true, though, that most people don't bother to learn what they're about, and simply vote party-line. It's too bad, we've certainly missed out on some good public servants because people around here can't manage to get past the "R" after their name on the ballot. But I'm sure the reverse happens other places.

So anyway, despite the fact that the Reformer is owned by a conservative, and has to cater to corporate and business concerns, I don't see any bias in it - if you do, I think you're buying into a popular conspiracy fantasy.

***Only someone with no bias would find a paper with no bias to have no bias.(If you follow?)***
And you’ve already stated your bias. I read everything with skepticism, but I don’t read “as a liberal.” And I don’t like any bias in my newspaper. In fact, it was just a few years ago that I WAS appalled about liberal bias in the Reformer. At that time, the editor and one of the reporters (both gone now) were involved in (in my opinion, I should add) some questionable actions. I believe there was some serious manipulation of news stories to effect a particular political outcome – a political outcome I happened to have agreed with. But just because it coincided with my political outlook, doesn’t mean I accepted the bias from the newspaper. I was one of the few, though, I guess.

Well, I gotta go now, I got a secret meeting with the local liberal media elite. We figure one more article on Vermont Yankee and the U.S. Senate, House of Representatives, Judiciary, and White House will be back in our hands.

Take care, aswigo.
-Mausky

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Authored by: awigo500 on Sunday, May 08 2005 @ 12:47 AM GMT+5

"Labels are fun aren't they? And easy. I'm a liberal. Hell, I'm practically a Trotskyite.
And reporters are all liberal. The Reformer editor must be a liberal."
--Labels are a fact of life. Every noun in the english language is a lable assigned to an object, person, place or a thing. Every adjective is a description of those nouns. So yes, you get a label. It's impossible to not lable- because labeling is necessary for your mind to categorize and process information. Without labels there is no communication, no memory.
--Why the heck would you be a trotskite anyway? A useless brand of politics designed to slowly alter the soviet union in the 1930's- which no longer exists.
--Did I say all reporters were liberal? Did I say all newspapers were liberal? No I did not. I don't believe I mentioned them.
--I assume that the editors/reporters of the reformer would not publish liberal material under the heading "our opinion" unless it was there opinion. Maybe they were lying...(Definition of 'liberal material' as noted are essays about social security, the patriot act, and the Iraq war which all carry the common themes, purposes and diction as the majority of the democratic party)

"It's that old "liberal media conspiracy" BS that people love to blather on about."
--Remember hearing about this:
"U.S. media coverage of last year's election was three times more likely to be negative toward President Bush than Democratic challenger John Kerry, according to a study released Monday"
Lastly, does the name of the still not fired Dan Rather remind you of anything?

"It's a fantasy, in fact in my view, the mainstream media has become little more than a propaganda tool for the right wing."
--Far left views the left as right.
Far left -r-> left -r-> Middle -r-> Right
Lastly, since the media is not goverment funded, it by definition cannot be propaganda.

"But despite their dominance of the media,"
Excuse me while I laugh and wish it was so...

"conservative pundits still howl every time they read something that fails to propound their right-wing view. "- Like "New Bush Memo discovered, claims to be typed in 1970's on typewriter dispite it's in the basic style of MS office 2000... Still somehow gets past 'fact checkers'..."

"It appears you see everything on a conservative/liberal basis. Which is too bad. Sometimes you have to look at what's in front of you with a more sophisticated eye."
--Everything has a bias. Ignoring that doesn't make it less true. I was told sternly by the socialist social studies teachers at BUHS to look for it in everything...

"Could there be another reason the story on national unemployment is on page five, and Vermont Yankee is page one? Think about it."
-On moment, let me raid the olde newspaper bin...
ok... after sorting through about 5 years of papers, the statistic is here- 1 out of every three papers has a front page article about VY.


"And then try to imagine the editor, apparently with little else to do, carefully planning the placement of dozens of articles on a daily basis to achieve a carefully crafted political message."
--Rather bluntly crafted, and easy to do. All he has to do is decide to put some news here, other news there... which incedentally, is most of his job anyway. Having a bias in that position would show even if the editor was unitentionally placing the articles.

"All without the knowledge of his conservative bosses. It’s laughable."
His bosses want to sell papers.

"Well, it's hardly shocking that they haven't come out in support of Republican beliefs. You don't have to be liberal or a democrat to reject what passes for Republican "ideals" lately."
-- Oh, I see. Except that 62,040,606 came out to support the ideals.. and of those who considered themselves republicans, 6% voted for Kerry. 11% of democrats voted for Bush. So it seems more common for democrat ideas to be rejected these days...


"But that's actually a relatively recent development."-
--True, but kinda irrelevent.

"I come from a long, long line of Vermont Republicans."
--Lovely.

"Some of them, believing the national Republican Party has left them behind..."
--Others have been brainwashed and sedated by the millions(ok, hundreads of thousands. whichever) of liberals. As a normal conservative, you seem extremely conservative when the norm is liberal.

"I'm sure the reverse happens other places."
-Sure. A conservative vermonter would agree with a liberal texan.

"I think you're buying into a popular conspiracy fantasy."
--The world ain't flat and the Misinformer is liberal.

"We figure one more article on Vermont Yankee and the U.S. Senate, House of Representatives, Judiciary, and White House will be back in our hands."
-- Really? one more? You gotta be kidding me. Will that be the 6,000,007 or 6,000,008th? I lost track somewhere around 3,687,454...
--How can you not get sick and tired of those articles? They tell us nothing new. They simply aren't news anymore. They're simply a way for the Misinformer to fill it's useless front page with something other than stories of domesticated deer...

Oh, and btw, it's awigo, not aswigo...
This is important, as the orgin of the name was my brother slamming the keyboard while coming up with a charecter name in simcopter back in 1997... Very important. I've gotten suspended a day from school for that name because, well on second thought, let's not go there. Sigh. Apperently it's a threat to school security the world over... How? I dunno. Because people who use aliases obviously become suicide bombers. Obvious to the 7th grade teachers, anyway. Stupid admin. Poses a threat... such garbage. And to think at BUHS you can get in three fights and only get a suspension, appearently.


---
A conservative in Vermont!

"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?" -Joseph Stalin

Authored by: Timmy on Sunday, May 08 2005 @ 06:32 AM GMT+5

I used to be kinda like you...
When I was in high school I was sort of a conservative, but only because I
really didn't evaluate the world around me for myself, I was simply
putting my own energetic spin on my parent's ideas.
Then I went to college, where, free from the direct influence of my
Republican father, I began to look at the world from my OWN eyes... and
discovered that the systems which I agreed with the most were the ones
that put human needs in front of any profit - because that is a more
compassionate system and one in which there can be less suffering for all
people.
I can hear your derision already... but ask yourself: Is what I am
advocating truly what I believe? Do I know what I believe?

Take it from me... it is best to study up on your history (especially
Trotsky, Marxism and 'Liberal' vs 'Left') before you go and say things that
you will find dreadfully embarrasing later in life.
Although, I suppose that's what growing up is all about, and I fully support
your right to say silly things, as long as you are not hurting anyone.

By the way, your Stalin quote is hard to interpret... are you in sympathy
with what he is saying or against it?

Authored by: Maus Anon E on Sunday, May 08 2005 @ 09:23 AM GMT+5

Oh, he'll figure it out eventually. You have to admit, he's a pretty sharp kid.

-Maus


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Authored by: Maus Anon E on Sunday, May 08 2005 @ 09:47 AM GMT+5

***I assume that the editors/reporters of the reformer would not publish liberal material under the heading "our opinion" unless it was there opinion. Maybe they were lying...(Definition of 'liberal material' as noted are essays about social security, the patriot act, and the Iraq war which all carry the common themes, purposes and diction as the majority of the democratic party)***
See, that just shows your extreme right bias, not to mention a nisunderstanding genuine conservative political values. It doesn't demonstrate any left bias in the Reformer,
A real conservative would abhor the mis-named Patriot Act's incursion into personal privacy. A right-winger, or a neo-conservative (the conservatives that aren't conservative) on the other hand, would embrace those powers. So it doesn't take a "liberal" to have an opinion opposed to the "Patriot" Act.
Real conservatives would also balk at the idea of "pre-emptive war." Being against war in general may legitimately be seen as liberal, being against the Iraq war in principle is not limited to liberals.
And as far a social security goes, the reason the President's "personal accounts" idea has fallen flat is because Democrats, Republicans, liberals, conservatives, and those in between don't support it. Again, you don't have to be liberal to be opposed to the plan.
So perhaps you're confusing "Liberal" with anything that fails to blindly follow the administration, or anything that doesn't ring the neo-conservative bell.
It think you may want to consider changing your signature to "A neo-conservative in Vermont!" or "A parrot of the right-wing in Vermont!"

***As a normal conservative, you seem extremely conservative when the norm is liberal.***
But this country has moved so far to the right, a normal conservative seems liberal now.

***How can you not get sick and tired of those articles? They tell us nothing new. They simply aren't news anymore.***
Some people think they are. I happen to agree with you. Here's what I do: I turn the page. Give it a try.

-Maus

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Authored by: signifyingsimian on Sunday, May 08 2005 @ 10:20 AM GMT+5

Just so you know: Tim, you sound self-satisfied almost to the point of arrogance. (giving advice to Awigo500 on how he can be more like you!)

Oh, by the way: I used to be like you. Try some ripe, organic bananas and loosen up. Then you can advance and become more like me!

Authored by: George Tirebiter on Saturday, July 23 2005 @ 07:47 PM GMT+5

People are difficult to teach because they are too clever.

Therefore, teaching through cleverness leads to rebellion. If you don't
teach by being clever, people might start to learn something. In other
words, the wisest teachers leave the people dull, in order to bring
enlightenment.