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Watergate Conspirator E. Howard Hunt Names the Men Who Killed Kennedy    
Monday, April 30 2007 @ 06:20 PM GMT+4
Contributed by: Scott

OtherThe "deathbed confession" audio tape in which former CIA agent and Watergate conspirator E. Howard Hunt admits he was approached to be part of a CIA assassination team to kill JFK was aired this weekend - an astounding development that has gone completely ignored by the establishment media.
Saint John Hunt, son of E. Howard Hunt, appeared on the nationally syndicated Coast to Coast AM radio show on Saturday night to discuss the revelations contained in the tape.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/300407deathbedconfession.htm

What E. Howard Hunt never fessed up about is how his wife was murdered along with all the others on the plane she was on which the Nixonites had sabotaged.

Hunt said that his father had mailed cassette the tape to him alone in January 2004 and asked that it be released after his death. (See the link above to listen to the tape)

"Asked for his opinion as to whether his father was indeed one of the Dealey Plaza tramps, Saint John, in a stunning revelation, said one of the tramps indeed looked much like his father did in 1963." (another of the 'tramps' in the photos looks a lot like Charles Harrelson, son of the actor Woody. Charles died in prison just recently.)

"Hunt also said that his mother's death in a December 8, 1972 plane crash in Chicago was suspicious and that there was evidence of a White House cover-up surrounding the circumstances of the alleged accident."

I posted about that sabotaged plane in January right after Hunt died-
http://www.ibrattleboro.com/article.php/20070125180431641

'The Strange Death of Dorothy Hunt'
http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/02nd_Issue/dhunt.html

The Crash of United Flight 553
[Excerpted from *Defrauding America* by Rodney Stich] >

http://www.theconspiracy.us/9501/0020.html

* an excellent book! His site, with other books by Stich>
http://www.defraudingamerica.com/

 

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  • Watergate Conspirator E. Howard Hunt Names the Men Who Killed Kennedy | 84 comments | Create New Account
    The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they may say.
    father
    Authored by: cgrotke on Monday, April 30 2007 @ 06:42 PM GMT+4
    ..."son of the actor Woody."

    I think you mean "father" of Woody. Woody has no sons.
    father
    Authored by: mr.mike on Monday, April 30 2007 @ 11:17 PM GMT+4
    Time for a little diversion Scotty? I wanted to post a story titled "Where was the thermite and how did they do it" In reference to the overpass collapse in San Francisco. It appears the GASOLINE (much lower BTU's than jet fuel.) weakened the steel in the overpass structure and caused it to collapse. How can that be though since we know that only CIA planted Thermite will cause steel to melt. Not gasoline or jet fuel. And certainly not in an open area like a highway overpass. Hmmm? Did anyone see Bush or Cheney in San Francisco or did they have Arnold do it?

    ---
    MILK COWS...............................NOT TAXPAYERS


    The Professor has an answer for you on that Mike
    Authored by: Scott on Tuesday, May 01 2007 @ 01:40 PM GMT+4
    Professor Steven Jones, a Ph.D. physicist and cold fusion expert, joined Alex Jones on the air yesterday to talk about the monumental differences between the two collapses.--

    Debunkers Use Ludicrous Freeway Comparison To Attack 9/11 Truth
    Desperation evident as thin rebars impacted by gasoline firestorm compared to twin tower's thick steel beams and concrete core >

    http://prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/010507ludicrousfreeway.htm

    "It appears the GASOLINE (much lower BTU's than jet fuel.)... "
    -No Mike it's the other way around, jet fuel is basically kerosene and burns cooler than gasoline, and that white hot gas fire only had to work on a single support truss and connectors to collapse that bridge. There was no molten metal there like there was in Ground Zero. If you'd listen to Alex Jones' show rather than NeoConartists then you'd know this.
    see also- http://stopthelie.com/freeway_collapse.html

    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com

    Follow the sheeple
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Tuesday, May 01 2007 @ 02:17 PM GMT+4
    Yes, Mike, if only you'd listen to neoprophet Alex "Yabba Dabba Doo" Jones and propaganda writer/toady/yellow journalist Paul "running-dog lackey" Watson, you could just leave all your thinking to them. Just follow the guy carrying the hooked stick.

    -Maus


    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Maus
    Authored by: cgrotke on Tuesday, May 01 2007 @ 02:33 PM GMT+4
    Aside from the namecalling to extinguish debate, which I really don't
    care for and everyone knows and I still hope people stop doing, who is
    right about the fuel?

    Which burns hotter? Gasoline or jet fuel?

    I did a search last night and found that fuels are extremely complex
    subjects - go read some petroleum blogs if there is any doubt.
    Viscosity, fuel mixes, additives, altitude, auto-ignition temperatures,
    flash points, etc. all play a part. I thought I'd find a simple answer
    and I gave up after 10 minutes or so, though I did find sites that
    seemed to confirm that jet fuel burns lower than gasoline. I'm just not
    certain.

    I am not saying anything about 9-11 or bridges here - I am only
    talking about the fuel question.

    Is mr. mike correct, or is Scott correct, about gasoline vs. jet fuel?

    (As for Oliver Stone, my friend Pete was in the Nixon movie, and
    Pete's mom played Cliff's mom on Cheers, which took place in
    Boston, where the Red Sox were cursed by Babe Ruth, which is a
    candy bar made with chocolate from South America, part of the solar
    system, which is made partly of minerals, or, as we call them, stones.
    See? Oliver was a play based on Dickens, too.)
    The Curse of the Mausino
    Authored by: Scott on Tuesday, May 01 2007 @ 04:03 PM GMT+4
    Rather than Mr. mike v. Scott, these things should be debated between the experts, those I've referred to and those in the 9/11 Commission believers/official version camp. The thing is, the latter group doesn't want to debate, they'll only give statements to Popular Mechanics and on their 'debunking' sites but still refuse to come to the table with the Kevin Ryan's and the Steven E. Jones's etc. and hash this stuff out.

    The fact is, no steel building, even ones built much more shoddily than the WTC buildings, has ever collapsed by fire alone, and the fires in the WTC buildings were not white hot but rather cool as evidenced from the videos and the fact that the people who jumped were able to stand there with those fires in back of them until the smoke became too much for them.

    Rare Close-Up Footage Of WTC 7 Shows Limited Fires >http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/wtc_7_rare_new_footage_limited_fires.htm

    Eyewitness Inside WTC 7 Reported Explosions Before Collapse >
    http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/wtc_7_eyewitness_reported_explosions_before_collapse.htm

    Kevin Ryan
    Underwriters Laboratories>
    http://www.septembereleventh.org/newsarchive/2004-11-11-ryan.php

    http://stj911.org/ryan/NIST_Responses.html

    http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/collapse/meltdown.html

    And no Chris, the Red Sox weren't 'cursed' cuz of Babe Ruth. They just naturally suck.

    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com

    Sox
    Authored by: cgrotke on Tuesday, May 01 2007 @ 04:20 PM GMT+4
    That sound plausible. : )
    A horse is a horse, of course, of course.
    Authored by: ZAM on Tuesday, May 01 2007 @ 07:39 PM GMT+4
    "The fact is, no steel building, even ones built much more shoddily than the WTC buildings, has ever collapsed by fire alone"

    Of course, that's false, and demonstrably so.

    Of course, even that aside, one of the leading reasons this fact is propagated is that the original statement was the number of fireproofed steel structures which have collapsed. Of course, sprinkler systems and fireproofing, both of which were a problem with the WTC buildings, are a huge factor in that.

    Of course, without water, the sprinkler system was all but useless, and the temperatures of the fire could easily reach steel's melting point via office furniture. Of course, even that aside, steel doesn't need to melt for a structure to collapse.

    Of course, an expo center collapsed due to an electrical fire, with neither jet fuel nor gasoline to ignite them, the only issue being a lack of sprinklers and sufficient fireproofing.

    Of course, that was not the only factor on 9-11.

    Of course, if we're going to argue firsts, I'd like to know when the last time someone slammed a plane into a building at high speed, as a human-guided missile. But even if you decide to go beyond the logical fallacies brought up with the "no steel structure has ever collapsed," there is sufficient evidence on many levels to crack this myth open.

    Jamie? Adam?

    ---
    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    A horse is a horse, of course, of course.
    Authored by: ZAM on Tuesday, May 01 2007 @ 07:47 PM GMT+4
    I'd also like to comment on the methodology of the research here, too. Scott provides a link of a rare video that shows limited fires. The problem is, someone cherry picked that video out of numerous images and videos which demonstrate larger fires and extensive fire damage.

    This methodology is clearly dishonest, because it takes little to find a demonstration. Someone poured through hours of footage to find some of this "proof."

    I'd just as soon not get into namecalling or whatever else is going on, this is a simple statement regarding the site's authors' methology, and the intellectual dishonesty involved in it.

    If more people looked as critically at the "debunking" sites as they did at the actual event, these theories would have been dismissed a long time ago.

    ---
    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    A stubborn horse to water
    Authored by: Scott on Wednesday, May 02 2007 @ 07:07 PM GMT+4
    "someone cherry picked that video out of numerous images and videos which demonstrate larger fires and extensive fire damage."

    -REALLY? Do me a favor Zam, find me 'numerous images and videos' of WTC 7 just before it collapsed. Try that for yourself. THERE ARE NO NUMEROUS VIDEOS of WTC 7 from 9/11/01, therefore there was no 'cherrypicking' cuz there were not loads of footage of that building! Less than a handful in fact. Check it out for yourself. I've seen most all of the video and images of that building from various sources, both from truthers and 'debunkers' and it's mostly the same footage from the same very few news sources that happened to catch it that day. Most of them were concerned about what happened to the twin towers since there were people in them, unlike 7 which had been evacuated- and even with those there were of the twin towers were a limited amount of camera angles.

    And merely saying 'of course' it's not true isn't good enough Zamo!
    Produce some facts about any steel constructed skyscrapers collapsing from fire please. Maus claimed there was one in Chicago that did but wouldn't give the name of it. Prove those like Bill Manning, editor of Fire Engineering magazine wrong if you can.

    'Firefighter Mag Raps 9/11 Probe' >
    http://www.rense.com/general18/firefighter.htm

    "Of course, sprinkler systems and fireproofing, both of which were a problem with the WTC buildings, are a huge factor in that."

    The facts about that fireproofing in the towers is covered in '911 Mysteries', watch it-
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003
    There was no problem with the sprinkler system in WTC 7, (which no plane hit) so why didn't the sprinklers put out the fires?

    "and the temperatures of the fire could easily reach steel's melting point via office furniture."

    -What orifice did you pull that 'fact' out of, cuz it stinks! Gather up some old furniture, place it inside some old barn that folks want to take down anyway, and set the inside on fire. Be sure to place a straight I beam or maybe a section railroad track etc. inside in a way that it will enjoy the full blast of the fire. Afterward you'll find the beam at least partly melted right? WRONG! In fact, every day people load firewood on a steel grate inside there fireplaces and guess what? -No matter how fast they have it burn, the steel grate stays in tact !

    "Of course, even that aside, steel doesn't need to melt for a structure to collapse."

    -No one said it does, especially for a poorly built building, but the towers were OVER ENGINEERED. But the main point about WTC 1, 2 and 7 is that EVEN IF there had somehow been a NATURALLY occuring 'pancake' collapse of the floors, that those SOLID well reinforced cores with 47 thick steel girders within would still stand, just like the grate in a fireplace still stands, and in fact the temp inside those cores wasn't even nearly as hot as it gets in your fireplace. The jets did not penetrate the cores anyhow, just the 'mosquito netting' and parts of the outer floors that surround the cores. 'Mosquito netting' is how Frank A. Demartini, on-site construction manager for the World Trade Center, spoke of the resilience of the towers, that a plane coming through would do no more damage to the overall structural integrity than poking a hole in a screen door with a pencil would do to the integrity of the whole screen > http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/design.html

    "I'd like to know when the last time someone slammed a plane into a building at high speed, as a human-guided missile."

    - July 1945, but that has little really to do with 9/11 since the building's integrity was not effected, just as the integrity of the towers was not affected by the jets hitting them on 9/11 nor by the subsequent fires, which the designers planned for- they designed them to be able to take AT LEAST ONE 707 loaded with fuel each.

    1945 ESB fire- http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=179 http://pix.sueddeutsche.de/reise/bildstrecke/779/74705/image_fmbg_0_6-1146220292.jpg
    http://www.pjhealy.com/oldweb/nyc/empirecrash.jpg

    Frank A. Demartini, on-site construction manager for the World Trade Center, spoke of the resilience of the towers in an interview recorded on January 25, 2001.
    The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door -- this intense grid -- and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.
    (note he said the towers could take NUMEROUS 707 planes hitting them)

    'A Firefighter Looks At Premeditated Murder At WTC' >

    http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:PUQJS3RTUoQJ:www.rense.com/general70/fraud911.htm+9/11+tower+%22mosquito+netting%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com

    Scott is Liberal... with the truth
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Thursday, May 03 2007 @ 10:36 PM GMT+4
    ***they designed them to be able to take AT LEAST ONE 707 loaded with fuel***
    No allowance was made for aircraft fuel in the design specifications of the WTC. The scenario design engineers contemplated, in the 1960s, was that of a single airplane striking a tower in foggy conditions, at low speed, on approach to the runway - when there would be little fuel left on board.

    -Maus

    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Scott is Liberal... with the truth
    Authored by: ZAM on Friday, May 04 2007 @ 01:28 AM GMT+4
    "Ooops, too bad there are no photos of the wreckage since there was no wreckage."

    Well, except for the wreckage that was there. Oops, too bad.

    "No allowance was made for aircraft fuel in the design specifications of the WTC. The scenario design engineers contemplated, in the 1960s, was that of a single airplane striking a tower in foggy conditions, at low speed, on approach to the runway - when there would be little fuel left on board."

    Yes. Bullet points. It was designed to resist an accidental collision. Which buildings in NYC had withstood in the past. Not designed to withstand a high speed collision with the intent to use the plane as a missile.

    Come to think of it, back when I was in school, we had breaking news on this sort of impact. Twice. And nobody said "well don't worry, no steel structure has ever...." They were worried about structural damage, and even fire damage. Kind of going on a tangent here. Sorry. But it does come to mind that it was taken seriously, even with accidental hits at lower speeds.

    ---
    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    Name Calling
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Tuesday, May 01 2007 @ 05:50 PM GMT+4
    Alex Jones is a public figure and Paul Watson is a propagandist. They are leaders in a movement of propaganda, misinformation, and sensationalism they call "truth." Pointing this out by labeling them is a short and succinct way of putting it all into one sentence. What they do - which, like any con game, is to prey on the weak and vulnerable - is vile and disgusting. If someone is going to reference them or link to them in every, EVERY single post, then the rest of us have to find some kind of shorthand for them as a frame of reference. Otherwise we're all going to have to keep on, and on, and on explaining why justifying any statement with a reference to these two characters is unconvincing, to put it mildly.
    Here's a rundown of why I said what I said:

    "neoprophet" - Alex Jones knows the unknowable. He also claims to predict the future.
    "Yabba Dabba Doo" - well, I just thought that was funny, as well as illustrative of a gung-ho stone-age frame of mind.

    "propaganda writer" - More than just having a "slant" Paul J. Watson's "news" is written to support a specific, and exclusive point of view.
    "toady" - Paul J. is a devoted follower/non-questioner of Alex Jones.
    "Yellow Journalist" - Yellow Journalism is sensationalizing the news. Have you read any of those links? Sensationalism is an understatement.

    As far as which fuel burns hotter, it doesn't matter. These people don't only claim that jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough, they claim that NO steel structure has ever collapsed due to fire. It isn't true, and you can find an example in Chicago if you google it. But it doesn't matter, because Jones' followers will come up with some reason why that doesn't fit the criteria.
    In this latest news, we have another steel and concrete structure, an elevated highway, that collapsed due to fire. Do you think that counts? Nope, they're already making up reasons it doesn't count. Everything's different, they say.
    In other words, since no other 120-story building has ever collapsed because of a fire due to an airplane strike, it means that it is impossible for it to have happened on 9/11. They also seem to believe that, since a jet fuel fire can't melt steel - the two towers should still be standing there. Apparently they don't understand the incredible forces that heat can exert on steel long before it melts.
    They point to bits of melted steel that were found in the ruins of the trade centers as proof that some kind of explosive was used, Apparently they don't realize that, in a 120 story building, of course there were mulitiple fuel sources, from the jet fuel to plastics, fibers, wood, and who knows what else. That one section of the building could become hot enough to melt steel is not surprising, particulary given the way it collapsed and continued to burn under the rubble - almost like an oven.

    As far as fuel and heat goes, as you mentioned, it is a complex formula, one that includes not only the fuel, but oxygen availabilty and... I can't remember the terminology, but it's the "medium" that carries the fuel - the "wick," if you will. It's amazing what can affect the heat energy output of a fuel. I remember reading about a method of burning an oil/water mixture that produced an intense heat - far hotter than the oil alone would produce. We have no idea what kinds of variables may have affected the fires in the those huge towers.
    But, no matter, these folks know it all, including all the variables present at the towers on 9/11, so don't even bother.
    Just tune in to Alex Jones.

    -Maus


    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Name Calling
    Authored by: Scott on Tuesday, May 01 2007 @ 06:58 PM GMT+4
    'Sensationalism' is a term one can easily throw at news providers whose facts go up against what one has been led to believe, such as the official version of 9/11- which is certainly fits the definition of a sensational conspiracy theory. In attemptin to debunk the 9/11 truth seekers, Maus has posted links to 'debunkers' like the Popular Mechanics article- which has been debunked itself, and not by Alex Jones, but by real experts like professor Steven E. Jones and others, and the official story is not believed by many high ranking officials in the govt. and military, but Maus would have us believe that those officials, including a couple Generals, airline pilots, military pilots and aircraft engineers, physics professors and other acedemics, structural and building engineers, etc. etc. are all victims of a 'con game' by a 'neoprophet', that they are all 'weak and vulnerable', when in fact they didn't even get their info from Alex Jones but from the science and their own educated reasoning and experience. ***And speaking of 'yellow journalism' as Maus does, Popular Mechanics is owned by Hearst corp- it was William Randolph Hearst who is famous for being THE Yellow Journalist of all time and his publications continue it long after he died.!!

    "Paul J. is a devoted follower/non-questioner of Alex Jones."
    -Paul J. Watson is an employee of Alex Jones just as Alexander Cockburn is a paid writer for The Nation etc. He is not an unquestioning robotron, (unlike many in the mainstream media)

    "As far as which fuel burns hotter, it doesn't matter."

    -Yeah it does, as you yourself show Maus by continuing to argue the matter and making claims, such as - " Apparently they don't understand the incredible forces that heat can exert on steel long before it melts." and "It's amazing what can affect the heat energy output of a fuel."

    "They point to bits of melted steel that were found in the ruins of the trade centers as proof that some kind of explosive was used,..."

    -actually the physics expert Steven E. Jones etc. (no relation to Alex) claimed that it was evidence of thermate, and they were not 'bits' but huge amounts that were still red hot DAYS later.

    "there were mulitiple fuel sources, from the jet fuel to plastics, fibers, wood, ..."

    -all things that burn reletively COOL, especially the plastics, carpet, computers etc. Those things slow down a fire from becoming a total inferno. Only thermate burns hot enough to melt steel easily and for long periods of time.

    "particulary given the way it collapsed and continued to burn under the rubble - almost like an oven."
    -yeah, even DAYS later it was too hot underneath the rubble to pour water down there due to hot steam coming back up, which had firefighters scratching their heads.

    "But, no matter, these folks know it all, "

    -'These folks' are not Alex and Watson as Maus would have you believe, they are the esteemed experts who DO know a thing and two about what they talk about, which is why Alex and the thousands of 9/11 truthers look to them for answers.

    From a September 11, 2001 Associated Press report . (not Alex Jones, although he did link to it at his site)-

    After the initial blast, Housing Authority worker Barry Jennings, 46, reported to a command center on the 23rd floor of 7 World Trade Center. He was with Michael Hess, the city's corporation counsel, when they felt and heard another explosion. First calling for help, they scrambled downstairs to the lobby, or what was left of it. "I looked around, the lobby was gone. It looked like hell," Jennings said.

    And I suppose actual video from a mainstream news outlet is also somehow 'sensational' and therefore a lie right? 'Rare Close-Up Footage Of WTC 7 Shows Limited Fires' > >http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/wtc_7_rare_new_footage_limited_fires.htm

    Actual sensational journalism and disinfo from Rupert Murdoch-

    http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/video_911_and_evil_in_america.htm

    "Just tune in to Alex Jones."
    -At least you got one thing right!


    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com

    Name Calling
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Tuesday, May 01 2007 @ 07:33 PM GMT+4
    ***He is not an unquestioning robotron***
    Great, oh master of endless links. Link us one article in which he questions anything Alex Jones says.

    ***Only thermate burns hot enough to melt steel easily and for long periods of time***
    Let's all absorb this wisdom for a few minutes before we start to imagine how the iron age ever got started without "thermate."

    ***And I suppose actual video***
    The wild deductions you people make from watching videos are, well, amazing. It's like you turn them into magical x-ray/infrared/substance sampling cameras. But I suppose, with no real restrictions on truth, you're free to speculate as you wish. And you do.

    -Maus



    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Reality check
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Wednesday, May 02 2007 @ 12:24 AM GMT+4
    Thermate, the conspiracy theorists "magic bullet" responsible for everything from explosions to melting metal, is not the only thing that can melt steel, of course.

    Thermate is the same stuff that's used in military incendiary grenades. The primary military use for incendiary grenades is for the destruction of equipment - say your command post is being over run, instead of letting the enemy capture your sensitive radios or computer equipment, you just set an incendiart grenade on top of a big pile of stuff, and it will burn right down through it. An incendiary grenade can be slid down the barrel of a tank or an artillery piece to render it useless.
    I've seen thermate used - or at least the aftermath. It will melt right down through a pretty big stack of metal equipment. Leaves a big, melty hole in communications equipment.

    But, if memory serves, the stuff stinks to high heaven. It's full of stinky nitrates and sulphur. I don't see how you'd hide the thousands of pounds of the stuff you'd need to bring down three towers - at least not from someone who has a nose.

    Barium nitrate, one of the chief ingredients of thermate, is toxic - anyone who was in or around the burning towers and inhaled, would probably have the pronounced symptoms of poisoning, and subsequent testing would reveal high barium levels.

    Alex Jones claims he had a sample of the steel tested and found "high levels of sulphur," which he claims indicates thermate. Actually, sulphur is less than 2% of thermate. Sulphur is also quite common. What he should have found, and what would have been an indication of thermate, would be barium. Barium is a metal that isn't as widely distrubuted as sulphur. And it makes up about 30 percent of thermate. So it should be all over the ruins of the WTC if thermate was present.

    But there's something that thermate doesn't do - and that's explode. You know how the conspiracy huggers like to claim there were "thermate explosions?" It's funny not only because thermate doesn't explode, but because the last thing you'd want around thermate is an explosion.
    Thermate would lose its effectiveness if it was scattered by explosion - sort of like scattering the embers of a fire. In mass, it will burn hotter and longer. It would also spread that stink.
    But it would also scatter the thermate away from it's intended target - the metal.
    Thermate explosions, indeed.

    -Maus

    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Reality check
    Authored by: Scott on Wednesday, May 02 2007 @ 07:24 PM GMT+4
    You make fun of the fact that thermate was invented yet when the iron age began in one rant, as if that means something, then in the other acknowlege the fact that it can "Leaves a big, melty hole in communications equipment."
    Actually one little can full of thermIte (less powerful than thermAte) will easily go through an engine block etc.,- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrCWLpRc1yM&eurl=
    or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrCWLpRc1yM


    Thermate 'explosions' and the DU penetrators that may have been what actually explosed (and set off the thermate) according to Professor Jones-
    http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:VXEhb3yKloUJ:www.rense.com/general75/thrm.htm+9/11+%22Thermate+explosions%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

    "This white flash is evidence of a pyrophoric white-hot uranium penetrator" -Jones

    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com

    Reality check
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Wednesday, May 02 2007 @ 10:20 PM GMT+4
    ***You make fun of the fact that thermate was invented yet when the iron age began***
    Actually I was pointing out the absurdity of your statement that "only thermate burns hot enough to melt steel easily and for long periods of time."
    Yes, thermate will melt through an engine block. That doesn't make it any more appropriate for the kind of application the conspiracy huggers claim for it.

    ***This white flash is evidence of a pyrophoric white-hot uranium penetrator***
    Complete gobbledy-gook. How unique.
    What your "professor" has done here is to confuse two different forms of uranium. Uranium is "pyrophoric," or flammable, when it is in a powdered or finely granulated form. Armor-piercing depleted uranium ballistic rounds, or "penetrators," are solid, heavy, and inert (radioactive, but inert as far as flammability goes). Their job is to pierce armor, not to burn their way through it. They obviously wouldn't be effective in powdered form.
    You can't have a "pyrophoric uranium penetrator." It's as bogus as a "thermate explosion.”

    ***Thermate 'explosions' and the DU penetrators that may have been what actually explosed (and set off the thermate) according to Professor Jones***
    "Professor" Jones - I take it this is the alchemist you mentioned earlier - is clearly off his rocker. I love that he's thrown depleted uranium in there - it gives his statement a gritty, "unhinged from reality" kind of tinge. It's all baloney, of course. Exploding DU penetrators, indeed.

    You are being taken for a ride by the Joneses, Scott. And they don't even have enough respect for their "marks" to tell them plausible lies.

    -Maus


    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Reality check
    Authored by: The Decider on Wednesday, May 02 2007 @ 10:28 PM GMT+4
    >>You are being taken for a ride by the Joneses, Scott. And they don't even have enough respect for their "marks" to tell them plausible lies.<<

    Why would they spend the energy? They know their marks well, no point in bothering to even make sure the basic science is accurate!
    Reality check
    Authored by: Scott on Thursday, May 03 2007 @ 07:04 PM GMT+4
    about the planes recently flying over Brattleboro you said-
    "Scariest thing? I can recognize which military plane is flying by just by hearing the engine noise from inside my house!"

    -Riiiight, but you can't look at video of planes going into buildings and question how they suspend the laws of physics as many who are far more experienced in aircraft and piloting and engineering and science etc. than you have done. Maybe you can tell me what kind of plane that it is that hit the Pentagon or crashed in Shanksville heh? Ooops, too bad there are no photos of the wreckage since there was no wreckage. How do you suppose all that aluminum, and TITANIUM of those big engines (check the vaporization temp of that) disappeared/vaporized huh?

    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com
    30 seconds research:
    Authored by: The Decider on Friday, May 04 2007 @ 01:56 AM GMT+4
    [flickr:355642846]

    30 seconds research:
    Authored by: ZAM on Friday, May 04 2007 @ 01:00 PM GMT+4
    To quote the X-Files (I hate the show, but everyone knows the line): The Truth is Out There.

    You can find photos and videos which show fires raging (7WTC), you can find photos of wreckage. You can find out the truth behind a steel structure collapse.

    The question is, why the conspirists are so Hell bent on ignoring it?

    Kind of ironic, coming from a "Truth" movement.

    ---
    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    30 seconds research:
    Authored by: Scott on Monday, May 07 2007 @ 07:11 PM GMT+4
    Really, I can find what no one else has been able to?! pics of parts clearly identifiable to a 757 at the Pentagon and at Shanksville?! Well I tried and so have millions out there, but if you can do it I believe there are rewards for you, just as there are for anyone who can find the law that says we have to pay income taxes! The roto part at the Pentagon is proven not from Pratt & Whitney or Rolls Royce engines that are that big-- look how small it is! >>http://911review.org/Wiki/PentagonPlaneRotor.shtml

    This has all been gone over in the videos amd pics and hashed out between the experts- there are no 757 parts there that anyone has shown.

    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com

    30 seconds research
    Authored by: The Decider on Monday, May 07 2007 @ 07:30 PM GMT+4
    Whats especially startling here then is that these folks were diligent enough to pull off such an operation - and then overlooked something so simple as planting the correct plane parts!
    Eck Spurts
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Monday, May 07 2007 @ 09:01 PM GMT+4
    ***The roto part at the Pentagon is proven not from Pratt & Whitney or Rolls Royce engines that are that big-- look how small it is! ***
    Oh, proven? You mean by experts? Experts like Professor Stephen "that looks like magic exploding depleted uranium thermate" Jones?
    Why would we believe any of these so-called experts when, so far, they've all been full of USDA choice Oscar Mayer?

    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Eck Spurts
    Authored by: ZAM on Tuesday, May 08 2007 @ 12:33 AM GMT+4
    Well, it wasn't the magic depleted Uranium guy, but it was someone who has "proved" it with dodgy photos that show only some of the parts in perspective.

    Which some experts may consider proof, but I, the charlatan I am, actually demand honest evidence.

    ---
    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    Eck Spurts
    Authored by: Scott on Tuesday, May 08 2007 @ 08:48 PM GMT+4
    I demand honest evidence too, like the films from all the cameras showing what hit the Pentagon which were confiscated, and any evidence that a 757 hit there, and could cause a hole only about 17 feet wide and go through three strong cement steel reinforced walls and leave no identifiable parts. We have to take their word that the bodies were pulled out even though no photos of that were allowed either. This does not come from the physics professor as Maus would try to say-

    http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/rotor.html
    http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/analysis/conclusions/debris.html

    'The Missing Wings' (with a simple burning experiment y'all can try at home with aluminum etc. and some kerosene (basically airplane fuel) See if you can vaporize aluminum or TITANIUM ! >>
    http://www.physics911.net/missingwings

    VIDEO:
    9/11 - Engine Rotor Found at Pentagon is NOT from a Boeing
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvMvBQuImTY

    Surviving Photographic Evidence of the Pentagon Attack >
    http://911research.com/pentagon/evidence/photos/index.html

    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com

    Eck Spurts
    Authored by: ZAM on Wednesday, May 09 2007 @ 12:40 AM GMT+4
    http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0265.shtml

    "Based on the sizes of the person standing next to the debris and other objects in the photographs that we can use for comparison, it has been estimated that the disk is approximately 25 to 30 inches (63.5 to 76.2 cm) across. Obviously, this piece is far smaller than the maximum engine diameter of 6 feet (1.8 m) or more leading many to draw the conclusion that the item is not from a 757 engine. That conjecture causes conspiracy theorists to believe that a much smaller vehicle must have struck the Pentagon instead.

    However, we have already seen that rotating components within a turbofan engine can vary widely in size. In order to determine whether this component could have possibly come from a 757, we need to take a closer look at the engine installed aboard the aircraft registered N644AA. Boeing offered two different engine options to customers of the 757-200. Airlines could choose between the Pratt & Whitney PW2000 family or the Rolls-Royce RB211 series. The particular engine model chosen by American Airlines for its 757 fleet was the RB211-535E4B triple-shaft turbofan manufactured in the United Kingdom. A drawing illustrating the overall size of this engine is pictured below.

    Note the relative sizes of the forward portion of this engine compared to the central core. Clearly, the section housing the fan is much wider than the turbojet core that contains the compressor and turbine components. We can get a clearer view of the relative sizes of components within this engine in the following cut-away drawing of the RB211-535."

    .etc.

    Besides the lack of perspective on the comparrison photos, the sites tell a crucial half-truth.

    If you look, you can also find photographic evidence of Kerosene demolishing more than wings. I'm admittedly too lazy to do more than 30 seconds of research at a time, but it's easy to debunk that crucial half-truth.

    I'm still waiting for that honest evidence.

    ---
    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad

    Former Perts
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Wednesday, May 09 2007 @ 02:07 AM GMT+4
    ***'The Missing Wings' (with a simple burning experiment y'all can try at home with aluminum etc. and some kerosene (basically airplane fuel) See if you can vaporize aluminum or TITANIUM ! >>***

    Sure, a simple experiment you can try at home! First, build a large, multi story above and below ground building.
    Second, ram 250,000 lbs of fuel, aluminum, titanium, plastic, baggage, and flesh into it at 500 mph.
    Third, sit back and listen to gossiping conspiracy theorists and shameless flim-flam artists play "aircraft crash expert" for the gullible.

    -Maus


    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Former Perts
    Authored by: ZAM on Wednesday, May 09 2007 @ 02:17 AM GMT+4
    I did that twice last week, actually.

    The problem is, the results were inconclusive. One time, it worked, the other time, the 757 morphed into a Jaffa Deathglider.

    And we all know the problem with them.

    ---
    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    Eggsberts
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Wednesday, May 09 2007 @ 03:48 PM GMT+4
    ***And we all know the problem with them.***
    Right, their graviton matrix propulsion systems will vaporize the entire building upon impact. Tsch!

    -Maus


    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Shameless Maus with his bull$#!+ lables/namecalling
    Authored by: Scott on Thursday, May 10 2007 @ 03:03 PM GMT+4
    "shameless flim-flam artists play "aircraft crash expert" for the gullible."- Maus


    From http://patriotsquestion911.com/
    See also

    Pilots for 9/11 Truth Association

    http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/

    Those "shameless flim-flam artists" who believe (make that KNOW) 9/11 was an inside job:

    Col. Robert Bowman, PhD, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Director of Advanced Space Programs Development under Presidents Ford and Carter. (The 'Star Wars' programs) U.S. Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. (PhD in Aeronautics and Nuclear Engineering, Cal Tech). Former Head of the Department of Aeronautical Engineering and Assistant Dean at the U.S. Air Force Institute of Technology. Also taught Mathematics and English at the University of Southern California, the University of Maryland, and Phillips University.

    Lt. Col. Shelton F. Lankford, U.S. Marine Corps (ret) – Retired U.S. Marine Corps fighter pilot with over 300 combat missions flown. 21-year Marine Corps career.

    Lt. Col. Guy S. Razer, MS, U.S. Air Force (ret) – Retired U.S. Air Force fighter pilot (F-111, F-15E, F-16, B-1, F-18, Mig-29, and Suu-22). Flew combat missions over Iraq. Former instructor at the USAF Fighter Weapons School and NATO’s Tactical Leadership Program. 20-year Air Force career.

    Commander Ted Muga, U.S. Navy (ret) – Retired Naval aviator (Grumman E-1 and E-2). Retired Pan-Am commercial airline pilot (Boeing 707 and 727).

    Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force – Former Air Force fighter pilot with over 100 combat missions. Commercial pilot for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years, flying 707, 720, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, and 777 ’s. Had previously flown the actual two United Airlines airplanes that were hijacked on 9/11 (Flight 93, which impacted in Pennsylvania, and Flight 175, the second plane to hit the WTC).

    Capt. Daniel Davis, U.S. Army – Former U.S. Army Air Defense Officer and NORAD Tac Director. Decorated with the Bronze Star and the Soldiers Medal for bravery under fire and the Purple Heart for injuries sustained in Viet Nam. Also served in the Army Air Defense Command as Nike Missile Battery Control Officer for the Chicago-Milwaukee Defense Area. Founder and former CEO of Turbine Technology Services Corp., a turbine (jet engine) services and maintenance company (15 years). Former Senior Manager at General Electric Turbine (jet) Engine Division (15 years). Private pilot.

    **Statement to the patriotsquestion911 website by Capt. Davis:

    "As a former General Electric Turbine engineering specialist and manager and then CEO of a turbine engineering company, I can guarantee that none of the high tech, high temperature alloy engines on any of the four planes that crashed on 9/11 would be completely destroyed, burned, shattered or melted in any crash or fire. Wrecked, yes, but not destroyed. Where are all of those engines, particularly at the Pentagon? If jet powered aircraft crashed on 9/11, those engines, plus wings and tail assembly, would be there.

    Quotes from the other pilots and many other assorted experts are at the patriotsquestion911 site linked above.

    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com

    Con Men and Suckers
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Thursday, May 10 2007 @ 04:56 PM GMT+4
    ***Those "shameless flim-flam artists" who believe (make that KNOW) 9/11 was an inside job:***
    Scott, you're confusing your con men with your suckers.

    -Maus


    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Con Men and Suckers
    Authored by: ZAM on Thursday, May 10 2007 @ 05:38 PM GMT+4
    The shameless people who sell DVDs and books to the sheeple who believe in a silly conspiracy, you mean?

    ---
    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    Reality check
    Authored by: ZAM on Wednesday, May 02 2007 @ 08:48 PM GMT+4
    The interesting thing about Thermate is that it was considered ideal by the military because it didn't do a lot of things the conspirators claim it did, and is being phased out because it doesn't do other things that they claim it did.

    Several of those things are ones you just mentioned. It really is a magic bullet.

    ---
    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    Oh, yeah.
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Tuesday, May 01 2007 @ 06:14 PM GMT+4
    To answer or "fuel only, not 9/11 question," Mr. Mike is correct.
    One gallon of gasoline contains about 125,000 BTUs. A gallon of #2 home heating oil, which is essentially the same thing as diesel has about 139,000 BTUs. Kerosene and aviation grade jet fuel are rated at about 135,000 BTUs.
    I got those numbers from multiple industry sources on the web.

    -Maus.

    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    cgrotke
    Authored by: william on Thursday, May 03 2007 @ 02:27 AM GMT+4

    The temperature necessary to melt structural steel ranges from 2000 degrees fahrenheit to 3000 degrees fahrenheit dependent on the specific alloy composition of the steel

    The temperature of burning gasoline is about 500 degrees fahrenheit. The temperature of burning kerosine (jet fuel) is about 450 degrees Fahrenheit.

    Structural steel begins to sag at about 1025 degrees fahrenheit. See PHYSICAL CONSTANTS for the information.

    I was the construction superintendent on a project for the repair of a structural steel building damaged by fire. The fire was fueled by plastic and polystyrene packing of one thousand or so flourescent flight fixtures in storage. Such fixtures are of the kind often seen in commercial office spaces.

    Polystyrene burns at a temperature of about 925 degrees Fahrenheit or at about the temperature when structural steel starts to distort and about twice the burning temperature of gasoline or jet fuel

    The steel columns had 2 inch steel flanges and had become slightly distorted as the result of the polystyrene fire.

    The steel columns were straightened by a specialist whose business card had the motto "Have Torch, Will Travel" Mr. Ray Stitt was the specialist that used heat treating with an acetylene torch to straighten structural steel. You can read about him on the web at STRAIGHTEN STEEL WITH HEAT It is a PDF file and you have to go to pages 14-16.

    The procedure that he used had to be certified by a structural steel engineer before the State Owner of the building would permit the process to be used

    Mr. Stitt came to the basement of this 10 story structural steel and concrete building where the fire had caused the damage and set up his acetylene torch and its tanks to get to work.

    Because of the New York City labor contracts, the steel workers claimed the work but as Mr Stitt set up to do his work they stayed by the exits to make a quick getaway. The procedure was simple. Mr. Stitt drew a triangle with a heat sensitive blue chalk that disappeared when the temperature of the steel reached 900 degrees Fahrenheit. The triangle was drawn with one of the apex at the opposite side of the distortion. At the temperature of 900 degrees Fahrenheit, MR. Stitt’s assistant flooded the heated section with cold water. The steel reacted by contracting and straightening out the distortion

    Once the steel workers had watched the procedure for several times they quickly joined Mr. Stitt in working on the procedure at other columns under his supervision.

    The structural steel damage to a building where the fire burned at twice the temperasture of the fire in the Twin Towers or Building 7 was only minimal and relatively easily repaired.

    steel & heat process
    Authored by: cbridge on Thursday, May 03 2007 @ 09:11 AM GMT+4
    Neat! I like that - thanks.
    Cold fusion expert?
    Authored by: cbridge on Wednesday, May 02 2007 @ 01:52 AM GMT+4
    Scott, there is no such thing as cold fusion. Many, many scientists tried to
    replicate the 'results' of the one guy who claimed to have done it. No dice.

    Which of course does not mean the government was not culpable in
    assorted possible ways in 9/11. But greater care in selecting your sources
    would increase your persuasiveness enormously.
    Cold fusion expert?
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Wednesday, May 02 2007 @ 03:54 PM GMT+4
    Yes, I noticed that, too. Bolstering your credentials by claiming to be a "cold fusion expert" is about as funny as calling yourself and "exptert alchemist."

    -Maus

    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Cold fusion expert?
    Authored by: cbridge on Thursday, May 03 2007 @ 09:07 AM GMT+4
    I prefer "thaumaturgical chemist" myself. I think it has the proper air of
    self-important technical mumbo-jumbo.
    father, son, holy ghost...and the kitchen sink
    Authored by: Tenacious on Monday, April 30 2007 @ 11:35 PM GMT+4


    Stifle that, Man, you're ruining the conspiracy!

    He was his son and his own grandpa and all of that can be explained with some urls Scott will be posting shortly...
    father
    Authored by: Scott on Tuesday, May 01 2007 @ 01:23 PM GMT+4
    Yes, and isn't it interesting that Woody starred in a movie called 'Natural Born Killers' when his dad was a real life one, and Oliver Stone had also made 'Nixon' (google "the whole Bay of Pigs thing") as well as 'JFK' in which he told us with symbolism how prominent Freemasons were the culprits in that assassination -http://www.ibrattleboro.com/article.php/20060804164443711

    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com

    Watergate Conspirator E. Howard Hunt Names the Men Who Killed Kennedy
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Tuesday, May 01 2007 @ 11:43 PM GMT+4
    Could we stay on-topic regarding the alleged JFK assassination link
    deathbed confession (made 4 years ago to the eldest son) please?

    I find the confessional name links to be somewhat plausible. They
    certainly check out with what Mark Lane, Gaeton Fonzi, and other
    investigators I've looked at have written. In fact, there's some overlap
    and corroboration, enough to make me tend to lean toward the "LBJ/
    CIA did it" theory.

    But here's Victor Marchetti, a former spook, saying something
    interesting about how the CIA lies to the American public:

    Victor Marchetti, writing for The Spotlight (14th August, 1978):

    A few months ago, in March, there was a meeting at CIA headquarters
    in Langley, Va., the plush home of America's super spooks
    overlooking the Potomac River. It was attended by several high-level
    clandestine officers and some former top officials of the agency.

    The topic of discussion was: What to do about recent revelations
    associating President Kennedy's accused assassin, Lee Harvey Oswald,
    with the spy game played between the U.S. and the USSR? (Spotlight,
    May 8, 1978.) A decision was made, and a course of action
    determined. They were calculated to both fascinate and confuse the
    public by staging a clever "limited hangout" when the House Special
    Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) holds its open hearings,
    beginning later this month.

    A "limited hangout" is spy jargon for a favorite and frequently used
    gimmick of the clandestine professionals. When their veil of secrecy is
    shredded and they can no longer rely on a phony cover story to
    misinform the public, they resort to admitting - sometimes even
    volunteering some of the truth while still managing to withhold the
    key and damaging facts in the case. The public, however, is usually so
    intrigued by the new information that it never thinks to pursue the
    matter further.

    We will probably never find out who masterminded the assassination
    of JFK - or why. There are too many powerful special interests
    connected with the conspiracy for the truth to come out even now, 15
    years after the murder.

    But during the next two months, according to sensitive sources in the
    CIA and on HSCA, we are going to learn much more about the crime.
    The new disclosures will be sensational, but only superficially so. A
    few of the lesser villains involved in the conspiracy and its subsequent
    coverup will be identified for the first time - and allowed to twist
    slowly in the wind on live network TV. Most of the others to be
    fingered are already dead.

    But once again the good folks of middle America will be hoodwinked
    by the government and its allies in the establishment news media. In
    fact, we are being set up to witness yet another coverup, albeit a
    sophisticated one, designed by the CIA with the assistance of the FBI
    and the blessing of the Carter administration.

    A classic example of a limited hangout is how the CIA has handled
    and manipulated the Church Committee's investigation of two years
    ago. The committee learned nothing more about the assassinations of
    foreign leaders, illicit drug programs, or the penetration of the news
    media than the CIA allowed it to discover. And this is precisely what
    the CIA is out to accomplish through HSCA with regard to JFK's
    murder.

    Chief among those to be exposed by the new investigation will be E.
    Howard Hunt, of Watergate fame. His luck has run out, and the CIA
    has decided to sacrifice him to: protect its clandestine services. The
    agency is furious with Hunt for having dragged it publicly into the
    Nixon mess and for having blackmailed it after he was arrested.

    Besides, Hunt is vulnerable - an easy target as they say in the spy
    business. His reputation and integrity have been destroyed. The death
    of his wife, Dorothy, in a mysterious plane crash in Chicago still
    disturbs many people, especially since there were rumors from
    informed sources that she was about to leave him and perhaps even
    turn on him.
    In addition it is well known that Hunt hated JFK and blamed him for
    the Bay of Pigs disaster. And now, in recent months, his alibi for his
    whereabouts on the day of the shooting has come unstuck.

    In the public hearings, the CIA will "admit" that Hunt was involved in
    the conspiracy to kill Kennedy. The CIA may go so far as to "admit"
    that there were three gunmen shooting at Kennedy. The FBI, while
    publicly embracing the Warren Commission's "one man acting alone"
    conclusion, has always privately known that there were three gunmen.
    The conspiracy involved many more people than the ones who actually
    fired at Kennedy, both agencies may now admit.

    A.J. Weberman and Michael Canfield, authors of Coup d'Etat in
    America, published pictures of three apparent bums who were arrested
    at Dealy Plaza just after President Kennedy's murder, but who were
    strangely released without any record of the arrest having been made
    by the Dallas police. One of the tramps the authors identified as Hunt.
    Another was Frank Sturgis, a long time agent of Hunt's.

    Hunt immediately sued for millions of dollars in damages, claiming he
    could prove that he had been in Washington D.C. that day-on duty at
    CIA. It turned out, however, that this was not true. So, he said that
    he had been on leave and doing household errands, including a
    shopping trip to a grocery store in Chinatown.

    Weberman and Canfield investigated the new alibi and found that the
    grocery store where Hunt claimed to be shopping never existed. At
    this point, Hunt offered to drop his suit for a token payment of one
    dollar. But the authors were determined to vindicate themselves, and
    they continued to attack Hunt's alibi, ultimately completely shattering
    it.

    Now, the CIA moved to finger Hunt and tie him to the JFK
    assassination. HSCA unexpectedly received an internal CIA
    memorandum a few weeks ago that the agency just happened to
    stumble across in its old files. It was dated 1966 and said in essence:
    Some day we will have to explain Hunt's presence in Dallas on
    November 22, 1963 - the day President Kennedy was killed. Hunt is
    going to be hard put to explain this memo, and other things, before
    the TV cameras at the HSCA hearings.

    Hunt's reputation as a strident fanatical anti-communist will count
    against him. So will his long and close relationship with the anti-
    Castro Cubans, as well as his penchant for clandestine dirty tricks and
    his various capers while one of Nixon's plumbers. E. Howard Hunt will
    be implicated in the conspiracy and he will not dare to speak out-the
    CIA will see to that. In addition to Hunt and Sturgis, another former
    CIA agent marked for exposure is Gerry Patrick Hemming, a hulk of a
    man-six feet eight inches tall and weighing 260 pounds. Like Sturgis,
    Hemming once worked for Castro as a CIA double agent, then later
    surfaced with the anti-Castro Cubans in various attempts to rid Cuba
    of the communist dictator. But there are two things in Hemming's
    past that the CIA, manipulation HSCA, will be able to use to tie him
    to the JFK assassination.

    First, Castro's former mistress, Marita Lorenz (now an anti-Castroite
    herself), has identified Hemming, along with Oswald and others as
    being part of the secret squad assigned to kill President Kennedy. And
    secondly, Hemming was Oswald's Marine sergeant when he was
    stationed at CIA's U-2 base in Atsugi, Japan-where Oswald supposedly
    was recruited as a spy by the Soviets, or was being trained to be a
    double agent by the CIA.

    In any event, Hemming's Cuban career and his connection with
    Oswald make the Lorenz story difficult for him to deny, particularly
    since the squad allegedly also included Hunt and Sturgis.

    Who else will be identified as having been part of the conspiracy and/
    or coverup remains to be seen. But a disturbing pattern is already
    beginning to emerge. All the villains have been previously disgraced in
    one way or another. They all have "right wing" reputations. Or they
    will have after the hearings.

    The fact that some may have had connections with organized crime
    will prove to be only incidental in the long run. Those with provable
    ties to the CIA or FBI will be presented as renegades who acted on
    their own without approval or knowledge of their superiors.

    As for covering up the deed, that will be blamed on past Presidents,
    either dead or disgraced. Thus, Carter will emerge as a truth seeker,
    and the CIA and FBI will have neatly covered their institutional
    behinds.

    The timing of the hearings is another clue of what to expect and why.
    The committee has scheduled its open sessions of network TV to begin
    after Congress adjourns for the election campaigns. The first order of
    business will be the Martin Luther King, Jr. hearings-with James Earl
    Ray and his family as the star witnesses. Then there will be a short
    break and the JFK hearings will begin.

    The committee plans to conclude its work by early October, just a
    month before the elections, perfect timing to cash in on the publicity
    the hearings are certain to create. And perfect timing for the
    Carterites to get the American public to forget about inflation, taxes,
    foreign affairs, and other White House blunders and elect a Congress
    more indebted and responsive to the presidency.
    Spotlight on the Spotlight
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Wednesday, May 02 2007 @ 12:44 AM GMT+4
    Not exactly on topic, but:
    Has there ever been a publication as far to the right as the Spotlight?
    We used to get the Spotlight when I was a kid - a gift from my Democrat-hating, liberal-baiting grandparents to their ever-more left-leaning son, my father. I don't know if they were trying to save him or take a poke at him.
    My sister and I used to read the headlines and howl with laughter.

    -Maus



    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Spotlight on the Spotlight
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Wednesday, May 02 2007 @ 01:28 AM GMT+4
    In the sixties you had lefty "Ramparts" which was the first to publish
    Mark Lane's writings. Mark Lane later had to use the right wing
    "Liberty Lobby" to help him as a vehicle to go after Hunt, Sturgiss
    and David Atlee Phillips. Then there was the strange politics of some
    of my friend's CIA dads, growing up as I did for a large part in the
    D.C. suburbs. Some of them, including Marchetti, had their own pot,
    which their sons would raid to smoke. The fact is however, Maus, that
    the US Congress investigated the JFK assassination and was
    interested, but had restraints put on them by Intelligence agencies as
    Gaeton Fonzi writes in his book, "The Last Investigation."

    Sometimes I find that, as a skeptic, the JFK stuff was somehow put
    upon me as curse, because I usually don't lean naturally toward
    conspiracy thinking, at least as it has been stereotyped by most. I
    mean, we all know that Lincoln was killed in a plot, but what I'm
    saying is, just because there are some conspiracies in history doesn't
    mean EVERYTHING is one, which some of my friends lean toward. I
    find this kind of blanket assertion/way of thinking to be just as flawed
    as the thinking that goes on the lines of: there's NO conspircacies. The
    trick is to use skepticism and demand evidence and to void one's self
    of emotional bias that can ruin free thought. Otherwise, a person is
    just using "faith" or his/her belief/bias to justify what they already
    "know."

    Spotlight on the Notsobright
    Authored by: Scott on Thursday, May 03 2007 @ 06:46 PM GMT+4
    One could say it was somewhat sensationalistic and blamed Zionism etc. for a few too many wrongs while ignoring some other culprits, but I read issues of the Spotlight back in the early 90's, and as far as their main points, that the globalists of the CFR and Trilateral Commission and David Rockefeller etc. have way too much influence in govt. as does the Israel Lobby/AIPAC and that 'Free' Trade will hurt American jobs and sovereignty- I found to be completely true after looking into such things myself and looking back over time now. Facts only a dumb@$$ fool would laugh about.

    Some of the editors from The Spotlight went on to establish the American Free Press.

    Howl away- http://www.americanfreepress.net/

    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com

    Watergate Conspirator E. Howard Hunt Names the Men Who Killed Kennedy
    Authored by: Scott on Thursday, May 03 2007 @ 06:30 PM GMT+4
    Hunt's son, who was on Coast to Coast AM with George Norey, was just on the Alex Jones show. So I guess that means he's a tin foil hattie who sensationalizes things and takes advantage of the weak and vulnerable just like Alex, as Maus would say. Anyway, Hunt Jr. had more to say-

    Son Of JFK Conspirator Drops New Bombshell Revelations
    Costner was set to make documentary on Hunt's confession, before Miami mafia stepped in, E. Howard believed government had sabotaged his wife's plane

    **WARNING**SENSATIONAL LINK** >> http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/jfk_hunt_son_drops_new_bombshell_revelations.htm

    Hunt Jr. says it does look like his dad in the photos taken of the 'three tramps' in Dealey Plaza that day and that it also looks like Frank Sturgis was one of them too. He said his dad did make one chilling comment once that indicated that they had that plane with his wife sabotaged, that his dad was worried that (paraphrasing from what I heard Saint John say) "the government would kill you kids like they did your mother."

    His own site www.saintjohnhunt.com

    Besides being involved in the Watergate burglary, the Bay of Pigs and various CIA black ops in Cuba and elsewhere, he was involved in the assassination of Che Guevara- ONE GOOD THING at least we can say about him!
    http://cheguevaralies.blogspot.com/2006_12_01_archive.html

    google "Che Guevara" "murderer"

    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com

    Watergate Conspirator E. Howard Hunt Names the Men Who Killed Kennedy
    Authored by: annikee on Friday, May 04 2007 @ 02:18 AM GMT+4
    The April 5th, 2007 issue of Rolling Stone had an article about this. St. John, called "Saint" for short, is a recovering 20-year meth addict, who was estranged from his father for many years. It's an excellent article and more in depth than the Coast to Coast show (whose founder Scott refers to in another thread as "rhymes with Fart Smells") and, predictably, more reliable. Saint is broke; why did it take him 4 years to bring this out?

    ---
    "There never was a good war or a bad peace." Ben Franklin
    Watergate Conspirator E. Howard Hunt Names the Men Who Killed Kennedy
    Authored by: Scott on Tuesday, May 08 2007 @ 08:31 PM GMT+4
    Fart Smell (Art Bell) started the show but he hired George Noory to do the weekday shows while Fart does the weekend ones. Hunt was on with Noory. Fart won't get into certain conspiracy stuff unlike George. Fart believes that 9/11 happened like the govt. etc. told us. His very name is occultic, and I wonder if it was really his birth name. Art means the same as Craft, and Bel means Baal (Satan). His name means the Devil's (witch) Craft ! Freemasons refer to their order as 'The Craft', so do witches, and they both use the same pentagrams and hexagrams and have rituals etc. Some high ranking Masons have come out and admitted that it's Lucifer worship.

    "There never was a good war or a bad peace." Ben Franklin

    "There was never a good Freemason or a major war that wasn't started by them" -Scott
    (Franklin was a Mason and Rosicrucian and Hierophant of the Mystery Religions)

    "There never was a good war or a bad peace." Ben Franklin

    "There was never a good Freemason or a major war that wasn't started by them" -Scott
    (Franklin was a Mason and Rosicrucian and Hierophant of the Mystery Religions)

    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com
    Conspiracy Craft Rings a Bell
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Wednesday, May 09 2007 @ 02:29 AM GMT+4
    AND airplanes, which the freemason secret gummint bankster ninja depeleted thermate uranium bombers claim crashed into the WTC, are also known as airCRAFT.
    And Sears,with its well known ties to the occult, sells CRAFTsman tools to ARTisans who use them to CRAFT pieces of ART.
    AND Bell Helmets are really Satan hats, and Bell and Howell make Lucifer Lenses, AND ask not for whom the Beelzebub tolls, it tolls for thee.

    Doo dee doo doo, doo dee doo doo.

    -MausCRAFT, Big Bad Bell Banger


    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Conspiracy Craft Rings a Bell
    Authored by: ZAM on Wednesday, May 09 2007 @ 03:10 AM GMT+4
    I didn't play that game. Is it by Alderac, like Spycraft?

    Come to think of it, Spycraft is all about secret government organisations, much like Illuminati was (One conspirator on iBratt used a Dream Theater CD and a card from Illuminati, a card game, to prove the forewarning of 9-11).

    I suspect that the "airplanes" were really mecha. And we know who's behind Mecha.

    ---
    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    Conspiracy Craft Rings a Bell
    Authored by: ZAM on Wednesday, May 09 2007 @ 12:51 PM GMT+4
    In fact, I wanted to verify that Steve Jackson made Illuminati, because I was thinking about it. Check this out....

    ---
    Item Name: DVD - Illuminati Card Game: Just A Game, Or A Blueprint For World Domination?
    Category: Illuminati Plan
    Sub-Category: DVD
    Item Number: PC-D-IG001-DVD
    Price: $24.99
    In nine pertinent playing cards of the "Illuminati New World Order" Game, how did the inventor know -- in 1995 -- the three events comprising the 9/11 attacks? How did he know also the correct plan in the near future? Why do his cards predict the appearance of Antichrist and the Rapture as the last two events of the Illuminati Plan?

    Events are occurring now, weakening the Old World Order so the New can be established. You will be surprised to learn how many of the recent events of our society are designed to enhance the new global dictatorship of which Antichrist will take control. It is later than you think! Events foretold In The 1995 Illuminati Card Game -- "Stage Being Set"

    One of the major cards is a "Messiah" and a "Rapture" card, confirming our teaching that the Illuminati knows the Rapture of the Church is real

    Additional Cards of Interest: Natural Disasters, Hurricanes, Tornados, Earthquakes, Weather Control, Mind Control -- all designed to bring the Masonic Christ (Antichrist) to power. NOTE: Stan Johnson is charismatic, not Baptist as is Cutting Edge. Most of the material offered on this tape is correct and vital knowledge, making it worthwhile to view even if we disagree with Prophecy Club on charismatic issues and the Rapture of the church.
    ---

    You should read some of this stuff...If you want a laugh. They ask how Steve Jackson could know about things like the WTC and the Pentagon, then go on to talk about weather control satelites and such.

    I mean, it's not like these are the staple of a specific style of "fantasy" (By which, I mean, make believe, not elves and "chicks in chainmail"). I mean, why would a card game about taking over the world show someone attacking the Pentagon (Our military "center") or the WTC (Our financial "center")?

    Could it just be that Jackson and his company are simply better informed than your average conpiracy theorist? Or is this a sign that the Antichrist is coming and that Bush was behind Katrina (Weather control satellites)?

    I've never played Illuminati, but as a resident gaming geek, I am familiar with other SJG works. Jackson's products are generally well-thought-out and thorough. His company is also very prolific--GURPS is designed to emulate anything you want to game. And there are supplements for almost any genre.

    Does this mean you could spin it so Steve Jackson is in on the chilling truth of Werewolves and Vampires and things that go bump in the night? Or that he has mastered FTL travel?

    Is an attack on the WTC such an unusual concept, anyway? I mean, aside from Bin Laden having already bombed it once, That site mentions a Tom Clancy book in which it happens.

    And further, if the Empire State building was attacked, would we have used King Kong as evidence?

    ---
    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    Conspiracy Craft Rings a Bell
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Wednesday, May 09 2007 @ 02:14 PM GMT+4
    This sounds like a fabulous pub drinking game.

    -Maus

    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Ahem: Intellectual Dishonesty Check ZAM-
    Authored by: Scott on Wednesday, May 09 2007 @ 07:35 PM GMT+4
    "Is an attack on the WTC such an unusual concept, anyway? I mean, aside from Bin Laden having already bombed it once"

    uh, just when was that Zam?

    The official story of the 1993 attack on the WTC tower was:
    Osama bin Laden, widely believed to have been the mastermind of the August 1998 attacks on the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, would seem a natural candidate to support the WTC bombing, but to date none of the government indictments against him indicate a connection to the incident.

    In October 1996, the militant Islamist and blind cleric Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman, who preached at mosques in Brooklyn and Jersey City, was sentenced to life imprisonment for masterminding the bombing. Rahman, whose Islamic Group organization is believed to have had links to Osama Bin Laden's al-Qaeda network, was later convicted with a number of others of conspiracy charges to bomb several New York City landmarks (see New York City landmark bomb plot). In 1998, Ramzi Yousef, said by some to have been the real mastermind, was convicted of "seditious conspiracy" to bomb the towers.

    THE NEW YORK TIMES had the truth for a change, the facts on how the FBI cooked that bomb! --Thursday October 28, 1993 Page A1
    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/wtcbomb.html

    And today, the FBI (as they admitted last year) still has no evidence tying Usama bin Laden to the 9/11 attacks. He even said he had nothing to do with it, and that video of 'him' supposedly admitting to it is proven to not be him.

    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com

    Ahem: Intellectual Dishonesty Check ZAM-
    Authored by: ZAM on Thursday, May 10 2007 @ 01:10 AM GMT+4
    Man, even your claims of dishonesty are dishonest.

    ---
    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    were non ov us prefekt.
    Authored by: ZAM on Thursday, May 10 2007 @ 01:35 AM GMT+4
    See, Scott, while I was not being dishinest, I did make a mistake. A mistake I will actually own up to right now. This is something people do when they are confronted with their mistakes normally.

    I do this symbolically, in hopes you can learn from my example. And maybe the examples of others.

    The problem is that leaping on tiny elements like this only distract from the larger idea that was involved there. That there was a bombing prior to 9-11, which that card better describes. Illuminati, to my understanding, has been around since I was about...Two.

    Steve Jackson's game was based on extensive research of conspiracy theoaries, and given what the World Trade Center is and such, it made sense.

    This is like Nostradamus quatrains. If you twist them enough, dig through them and ignore crucial facts, you can predict anything with them--After the fact.

    It's also a blatant violation of Occam's Razor.

    But yes, you caught me in a mistake.

    ---
    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    were non ov us prefekt.
    Authored by: Scott on Thursday, May 10 2007 @ 02:40 PM GMT+4
    "like Nostradamus quatrains. If you twist them enough, dig through them and ignore crucial facts, you can predict anything with them--After the fact."

    -Yes, but Nostra never illustrated anything so exact as a tower blowing up along with the Pentagon getting attacked. He was deep into the occult you know, witchcraft, that's how he came up with his blurry 'prophetic' quatrains. But I don't really care about that Illuminati game junk, and only pointed it out here in the past cuz it's a pretty wierd coincidence, like the rap artists Coup having their cd cover showing them blowing up the twin towers with dynamite, released just b4 9/11, or the Dream Theatre cd cover having the Big Apple and the towers in flames and all wrapped in barbed wire which was released on 9/11/01.

    I want a REAL investigation, and indictments, of not only the 9/11 attacks AND Oklahoma 4/19/95 but a real look into why the FBI got away with supplying the explosives for the first WTC bombing, as the NY Times reported from the FBI's own inside man who blew the whistle on his FBI handler by releasing the tapes he made of his conversations on the phone with the FBI agent encouraging him to go ahead and give the blind Islamic cleric the real explosives that ended up blowing up the WTC parking garage and killing 7 people. (-as documented in the NY Times article I linked to with the whatreallyhappened.com mirror link.)

    He admitted he was sorry over what happened, that he made a big mistake in trusting the damn FBI scum, and that people died cuz of it. They probably wish they had killed him b4 he went to the Times, but then, they get away with it even though the facts got out---and that's because the big overall problem with so many of us---
    a great IMPERFECTION in humanity---
    SHEEPLE JUST DON"T CARE

    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com
    were non ov us prefekt.
    Authored by: ZAM on Thursday, May 10 2007 @ 05:36 PM GMT+4
    "Yes"

    So you admit you're wrong.

    Excellent (Context be damned).

    The difference, really, is that you want this one to be pertinent, and will thus ignore Occam's Razor.

    The World Trade Center is a popular "target" in fiction, and that a game based on conspiracy theories and world takeover would have somethng like this is about th same as the odds they would have James Bond-esque weather control satellites. Pretty damn good. And again, you can cherry pick the sources in the past that have cited this as proof that someone knew what was going on, but you would be retroactively applying it. JUST LIKE WITH NOSTRADAMUS.

    "But it's not as specific?" So what? Do you see airplanes in that picture? No? Was the Pentagon actually blown up on 9-11? No? So...What you're saying is this doesn't accurately depict 9-11 ither. You know, like the Quatrains.

    Like FICTION.

    http://xkcd.com/c258.html

    ---
    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad

    were non ov us prefekt.
    Authored by: Scott on Friday, May 11 2007 @ 03:38 PM GMT+4
    "Do you see airplanes in that picture? No? "

    -Exactly!! There was no 757 plane that hit the Pentagon!

    "Was the Pentagon actually blown up on 9-11? No?"

    -Part of it was attacked and burned, and the game card shows only the center of the Pentagon in flames.

    "in the past that have cited this as proof that someone knew what was going on,"

    -The conspirators knew/planned it, and God knows what they're up to before they even get together and do it. The Bible talks a lot about conspiracies/conspirators. Maybe God or an angel whispered in the ear of the Illuminati Game maker to get 'em to make those cards? He does tell us about certain things in advance, and not just with the prophesy in the Bible you know but through people and angels even today.

    For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
    Luke 12:2

    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com
    were non ov us prefekt.
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Friday, May 11 2007 @ 03:52 PM GMT+4
    ***-Exactly!! There was no 757 plane that hit the Pentagon!***
    It's a good thing there's video tape of the planes that hit the WTC towers, or the 9/11 "truth" fabricators would be claiming that no plane hit the towers.
    Eyewitnesses saw an airplane hit the Pentagon (I happen to know someone who saw it.)
    And people lost relatives on those flights (WTC, Pentagon, Shanksville). Or do you think they were all just abducted by the Gummint?

    -Maus

    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    were non ov us prefekt.
    Authored by: ZAM on Friday, May 11 2007 @ 04:32 PM GMT+4
    "-Exactly!! There was no 757 plane that hit the Pentagon! "
    A shame I was addressing the WTC. Now you can claim it was a military plane or whatever other nonsense you wish to argue, but there were clearly planes. Two of them. Military or not, they struck the WTC. I only see one building "hit," and it sure as Hell didn't depict a plane.

    "Part of it was attacked and burned, and the game card shows only the center of the Pentagon in flames. "

    Which isn't even in keeping with what happened. Part of the tinfoil hat squad's argument is tha a plane couldn't have done what it did to the perimeter.

    "God knows what they're up to before they even get together and do it."

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    *wipes tear from eye*

    Sorry...DO go on...

    "Maybe God or an angel whispered in the ear of the Illuminati Game maker to get 'em to make those cards? He does tell us about certain things in advance, and not just with the prophesy in the Bible you know but through people and angels even today."

    And MAYBE the theory that the pyramids at Giza were landing sites for alien spacecraft is also right. That's not proof, that's supposition based on belief in a fairy tale made up by man.

    ---
    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    were non ov us prefekt.
    Authored by: Scott on Friday, May 11 2007 @ 06:28 PM GMT+4
    "I only see one building "hit," and it sure as Hell didn't depict a plane."

    -¿Huh¿

    "Which isn't even in keeping with what happened."

    -Yeah it was- Part of the Pentagon was destroyed, and that old game card card depicted fire in part of the Pentagon, albeit the part where few would be hurt (the center). The part that got struck by the 'missile' (Donald Rumsfeld's term) or whatever it was, hit the side of the building that had few people in it. It was the opposite side of where Rummy's office was.

    "Part of the tinfoil hat squad's argument is tha a plane couldn't have done what it did to the perimeter."

    -It wasn't just the perimeter with that way too small 18 foot hole (prior to the roof collapse) and missing wings and engines etc. but at least THREE THICK WALLS of steel reinforced concrete were punctured by the whatever that struck there. http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/pentagon/what-hit-it.htm

    http://www.911lies.org/full_size_911_pentagon_attack_damage5.html

    I don't listen to tin foil hat wearers but those who have worn pilots hats, engineering hats, military hats, scientist hats etc.
    http://patriotsquestion911.com/
    http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/
    I think it's quite insulting to those who have served in the highest branches of the military and flown missions in Vietnam etc. by labeling them as you do just because they point to what they say is unbelievable and improbable regarding the events of 9/11.

    "And MAYBE the theory that the pyramids at Giza were landing sites for alien spacecraft "

    -Silly, the Great Pyramid has a much greater and Divine purpose
    http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/great.htm

    http://www.amazon.com/Beginnings-Sacred-Design-Bonnie-Gaunt/dp/093281378X



    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com

    Holy conspiracraft, Batman!
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Wednesday, May 09 2007 @ 02:12 PM GMT+4
    I almost forgot the biggest "bell" of them all, Bell Telephone ,also known as "Baal Telelphone" (and now the baby Bells, spawn of satan) who provide direct person-to-dark lord communication with the devil himself!

    -Maus

    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Watergate Conspirator E. Howard Hunt Names the Men Who Killed Kennedy
    Authored by: mudlegs on Wednesday, May 09 2007 @ 06:50 PM GMT+4
    Names can have many origins and the interpretation of the name "Art
    Bell" may have meanings other than those cited.

    From Wikepedia
    Arthur "Art" W. Bell, III (June 17, 1945) is an American broadcaster
    and author, known primarily as the founder and a longtime host of the
    paranormal-themed radio program Coast to Coast AM. He also created
    and formerly hosted its companion show, Dreamland.
    Semiretired from Coast to Coast AM, he returned from his hiatus from
    hosting the weekend broadcasts, but then took another leave while
    technical problems were worked out. Bell also owns oldies station:
    KNYE 95.1 FM ("The Kingdom of Nye ... Things That Go Pahrump In
    The Night") in Pahrump, Nevada.
    Between June and December of 2006, Bell broadcasted Coast to Coast
    AM from Metro Manila in the Philippines. However, on December 27,
    2006, he returned to the United States with his wife (apparently after
    delays in immigration issues) and continued broadcasting on Coast to
    Coast AM the next day with author Graham Hancock[1].

    "Arthur is a common male name, meaning "bearlike," believed to
    possibly be descended from the Roman surname Artorius or the Celtic
    bear-goddess Artio or more probably from the Celtic word artos
    (bear). Other Celtic languages have similar first names, such as Old
    Irish Art, Artúur, Welsh Arth - which may also be the source for the
    modern name. Art is also a diminutive form of the common name
    Arthur. In many Slavic, Romance, and Germanic languages the name
    is spelled as Artur."

    From About: Geneology
    Surname Bell:
    Definition: The name may derive from the French "bel," meaning fair
    , beautiful, or handsome. Since the derivation is descriptive, common
    ancestry cannot be assumed for all those bearing the surname. The
    name was sometimes taken from the sign of an inn or shop. The sign
    of a bell was frequently used - "John at the Bell" became "John Bell."
    There is no particular country or province of origin, though the name
    was fairly prevalent in medieval Scotland and England.

    Surname Origin: Various

    Alternate Surname Spellings: BELLE, BEALE, BEAL, BEALS, BEALES,
    BALE, BEEL, BIEHL, BALE, BEALL

    I thought some info. on name origins might interest some out there.


    Gorty Baldwin

    ---
    Let us be guided by the better angels of our nature. (I'm sure Abe won't mind the paraphrase.)
    Something Wicked This Way Comes
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Thursday, May 10 2007 @ 05:01 PM GMT+4
    Gorty BAALdwin? ;-)


    ---
    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Something Wicked This Way Comes
    Authored by: mudlegs on Thursday, May 10 2007 @ 06:38 PM GMT+4
    I was told, as a child, that Baldwin meant "bold friend" in Old English. If
    I am related to Satan, I'm not on the list of people to whom he is
    sending money. Maybe I need to become a social conservative and the
    money will roll in.

    My wife sometimes asks me if I'm sure Baldwin means "bold friend" and
    not "blockhead".

    Gorty (I'll leave my last name out of the conversation for now.)

    ---
    Let us be guided by the better angels of our nature. (I'm sure Abe won't mind the paraphrase.)
    Something Wicked This Way Comes
    Authored by: ZAM on Thursday, May 10 2007 @ 07:34 PM GMT+4
    Gorty,

    Don't feel bad.

    I consider myself an "Artist" because I write music and play a little guitar (Play horribly, but still, I'm a guitarist in the same sense Meg White is a drummer).

    Since Art means craft, and the Masons refer to their work as "The Craft," I am obviously in league with them, deeply tied to the occult, and worshipping Satan.

    I mean, I never new it, but by simply calling myself an "artist," I was lending myself to Satan's work and enabling the Masons.

    ---
    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    Something Crafty This Way Comes
    Authored by: Scott on Friday, May 11 2007 @ 03:13 PM GMT+4
    Silly, the Masons refer to Freemasonry as 'The Craft' for the same reason that witches call what they do 'The Craft'. The top Masons etc, the Illuminati certainly are crafty!
    Unless you're singing/playing Devil's music and promoting evil with your art, then your art isn't neccesarily bad, although it 's apparently bad as in badly played- 'horrible' as you call it.

    Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman,
    Deuteronomy 27:15

    For thy mouth uttereth thine iniquity, and thou choosest the tongue of the crafty.
    Job 15:5

    After two days was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death.
    Mark 14:1

    But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me?
    Luke 20:23

    That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
    Ephesians 4:14

    ---
    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com
    Which is Satans Favorite Station?
    Authored by: Tenacious on Friday, May 11 2007 @ 04:09 PM GMT+4
    >singing/playing Devil's music and promoting evil with your art<


    I wonder how we would ever determine who is "promoting evil" with music and art?

    Oh, right a bunch of quotes from that old book of parables and fairy tales should be the litmus test.

    I would guess that the devil listens to alot of top 40 dreck and mainstream modern country rubbish since that is the most evil stuff around and he would certainly want to promote the most pointless and inane music around. In fact he is probably a music industry executive hard at work trying to keep the good and righteous music from reaching our impatient ears.

    I think there is a Devil's Music Open Mic every Thursday at a nearby tavern, who wants to carpool?


    Johnny you rosin up your bow and play your fiddle hard.

    Wave of Mutilation
    Authored by: ZAM on Friday, May 11 2007 @ 04:27 PM GMT+4
    "Silly"

    Funny, you usually write my responses for me. Because, really, I was emphasising how your original leaps of logic were just that. You can do anything with word play.

    "Unless you're singing/playing Devil's music and promoting evil with your art, then your art isn't neccesarily bad"

    In the 16th century, and even up until the 20th, Christians were scared of what's called "tri Tones." They were "The Devil's Interval." It's a key element in blues, but it was considered evil even in this last century by a superstitious lot who were still afraid that playing a Flat 5 would somehow end the world, empower Satan, and make sure that bright ball of fire in the sky wouldn't come up in the morning.

    So since I know how to play Diminished and "Flat Five" (really the same thing) as well as playing seven chords (Which naturally contain a tri tone), I suppose, I am, technically, supporting the Devil. But that's only if you believe in hokey superstitions.

    Your call, really.

    The Pixies did it. And One of them was called Black Francis. I wonder what kind of word play you could have with ole Frank Black...

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    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    Devil's music
    Authored by: Scott on Friday, May 11 2007 @ 05:32 PM GMT+4
    I was talking about this kind-
    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/devils_music.htm

    About Satan's crafty bookwriters -
    http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/da_vinci_tract.html

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    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com

    The Devil's music
    Authored by: Floyd on Friday, May 11 2007 @ 06:04 PM GMT+4

    Great Stuff! I'll do a radio show dedicated to this music as I love much of it anyway.

    How about Pat Boone covering Black Sabbath?!?!?!

    Segue 616 on Mondays at 8PM


    Of course I don't believe in the devil or similar man made deities so the evil will have to try extra hard to get me!



    The Devil's music
    Authored by: ZAM on Friday, May 11 2007 @ 06:33 PM GMT+4
    Floyd,

    This is more interesting to me than the actual conspiracy, so let me just make a suggestion:

    The Stone Coyotes have a cover of "Paranoid" by Black Sabbath, and since thy have some pretty local ties, it'd be nifty.

    Plus, Barbara Keith is pretty flippin' awesome, too.

    Hell, they Cover "Ace of Spades" by Motorhead. And we know Gambling's evil.

    Quick, anyone play guitar. Let's get together and cover "Hell's Bells" By AC/DC.

    (Sorry, the phrase has been in my head for weeks, since I started reading the Dresden files. ZOMG WITCHCRAFT!)

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    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    The Devil's music
    Authored by: Scott on Friday, May 11 2007 @ 06:34 PM GMT+4
    How about Pat Boone with his weaner in a box! (an old photo of Pat that Hustler magazine got a hold of)

    scroll down to the Boone thing and click it- http://www.boingboing.net/2006/12/26/response_to_snl_vide.html

    Sure he ain't already got you Floyd?

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    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com

    The Boone's music
    Authored by: Floyd on Saturday, May 12 2007 @ 03:43 AM GMT+4


    Pat Boone definitely does not have me and I don't know anything about that little box.



    The Devil's music
    Authored by: annikee on Friday, May 11 2007 @ 08:58 PM GMT+4
    From Scott's Jesus is Saviour website;
    "...There is NO such thing as "Christian rock." ALL rock-n-roll music is from the Devil)."

    RocknRoll is straight from Hell!



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    "There never was a good war or a bad peace." Ben Franklin
    The Devil's music
    Authored by: ZAM on Saturday, May 12 2007 @ 12:14 PM GMT+4
    >>>From Scott's Jesus is Saviour website;
    "...There is NO such thing as "Christian rock." ALL rock-n-roll music is from the Devil)."

    RocknRoll is straight from Hell!<<<

    Well, he's half right. Christian rock is just the exntesnion of the Christian as parasite, stealing an art form and reducing it to its most banal and uninspired level.

    There's no Christian rock. There's rock, and then there's watered-down crap to pacify Christians.

    But Rock and Roll is the Devil's music because it was inspired by negroes, encouraged women to wear pants, men to wear their hair long, and causes homosexuality.

    Isn't it awesome how Satan has more power than the Devil? And horribly ironic that it's the Christians who so empower him?

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    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    Christians empower him
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Saturday, May 12 2007 @ 05:14 PM GMT+4
    The Devil is Christianity's biggest fan.

    -Maus

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    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Christians empower him
    Authored by: ZAM on Sunday, May 13 2007 @ 02:17 AM GMT+4
    Well, if not fans, they certainly do elevate him.

    I mean, "satan" is conveniently used for everything one dislikes. And as they seem to dislike a lot of things, suddenly, Satan seems awful powerful.

    Of course, they're kind of the only fans out there. You know, since everyone else knows better.

    Scott did catch me in a typo, though. I meant to say Satan was more powerful than God. However, if his facts were straight, he'd know the difference twixt Satan and the Devil.

    Another thing Christians do, or rather don't do, is get their story straight. But this is a commonality in ALL fairy tales.

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    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    Christians empower him
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Sunday, May 13 2007 @ 02:51 AM GMT+4
    Yes, I meant the Devil loves Christians - without them he'd be nothing. Literally.

    -Maus

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    The Walter Mellon Foundation's global art project. Art Happens. www.waltermellonfoundation.org
    Christians empower him
    Authored by: ZAM on Sunday, May 13 2007 @ 03:07 PM GMT+4
    'Tis true.

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    Hate the Intellectual Dishonesty, Love the Intellectually Dishonest--ZAM 15:12
    "Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad
    The Devil's music
    Authored by: Scott on Saturday, May 12 2007 @ 06:00 PM GMT+4
    "inspired by negroes" (rock)

    -yeah, they say "the Blues had a baby and they called it Rock and Roll". Black Americans invented the Blues, which is what I have come to love the most, especially gospel Blues like the Blind Boys of Alabama who I saw in Northhampton's Iron horse a couple years ago. Saw R.L. Burnside there too- he's killer, 'Punk Blues' it's called, and way cool. John Lee Hooker is my all time favorite. I've come to realize that ugly old black gents make the best music. White boys just don't do Blues, Stevie Ray Vaughn came close to that greatness though, but even he wasn't pretty. Pretty boys don't make good music. Elvis sucked bigtime if you ask me, although some of his early Blues was OK, but he stole from the black greats the songs they wrote as did Pat Boone etc. I don't think anything is 'From Hell' since Hell is not a place, just a descriptive term for the fire that will engulf the wicked. "From Hell' is the name of a good movie though- about who was really behind the Jack the Ripper slayings. I don't like Bono of U2 but I love their music, some of which could be called gospel and in honor of Christ. Yet I can see why many Christians see anything with drums and a fast beat as bad and why they say there is no 'Christian Rock'.

    and (rock) causes homosexuality.
    _I don't think so, but I have seen evidence that Country music causes incest.

    "Isn't it awesome how Satan has more power than the Devil? "

    -Huh? - they're one and the same Zam

    "it's the Christians who so empower him"

    -it's everyone's sin that empowers Satan, and Christ who overpowers him in the end, which is to happen soon. Get ready!

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    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com
    New Bombshell
    Authored by: Scott on Tuesday, May 15 2007 @ 07:42 PM GMT+4
    JFK Conspirator Wanted Every Kennedy Dead
    E. Howard Hunt wanted to "finish the job" by killing Senator Ted Kennedy, greeted news of RFK's assassination with satisfaction >
    http://www.infowars.com/articles/us/jfk_hunt_wanted_every_kennedy_dead.htm

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    You can lead the sheeple to the truth but you can't make them think. The Answer to 1984 is 1776 infowars.com 911wasaninsidejob.com