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Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning    
Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 04:21 PM GMT+4
Contributed by: Lawbound

Town NewsThis morning there was a major accident on I91 northbound at around 7:30 AM in which a truck going over the Williams Street overpass lost control of his vehicle, hit a minivan, and then crashed through the guard rail, coming down onto the slope just off the north side of Williams Street. From talking to the emergency workers at the scene, it appears that the truck caught fire on impact. According to WCAX, the driver of the truck was killed, while the driver and passenger of the minivan suffered minor injuries.

When I heard about the accident around 10:30 AM, I went over to see what had happened and took the following pictures.

Here's the minvan. Notice the guardrail missing behind.

Traffic patterns altered.

The truck (cab near bottom).

Notice burn marks on the bridge.

Guardrail missing.

 

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    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: Floyd on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 04:50 PM GMT+4

    STATE OF VERMONT

    DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY

    VERMONT STATE POLICE



    PRESS RELEASE



    INCIDENT: Fatal Accident/Interstate Closure



    CASE #: 08D200393



    TROOPER: Cpt. David J. Covell STATION: Brattleboro CONTACT#: 802-875-2112



    DATE/TIME: February 5, 2008



    LOCATION (specific): Interstate 91/Williams Street Overpass





    VICTIM: Name is being withheld pending next of kin notification



    SUMMARY OF INCIDENT:



    The Vermont State Police in Brattleboro are currently investigating a fatal accident involving a tractor trailer unit which occurred at approximately 07:30 hours this morning on Interstate 91 in Brattleboro VT. Investigation too date has revealed that prior to the accident the tractor trailer unit was traveling north on I-91 when the operator lost control and initially collided with a second vehicle. The tractor trailer unit then collided with the guardrails on the Williams Street overpass, proceeded through the guard rails and off the overpass. The tractor trailer unit then came to a final position of rest below on Williams St. The tractor unit became fully involved and the Brattleboro Fire Dept responded to extinguish the fire. The operator of the tractor trailer unit died as a result of the injuries sustained in the accident. The name of the operator is currently being withheld pending identification and notification of next of kin.



    Brattleboro Rescue responded to treat and transport the operator and occupant of the second vehicle involved for non-life threatening injuries.



    At this time Interstate 91 is closed between Exit 1 and Exit 2 northbound while engineers from the Vermont Agency of Transportation assess the condition of the overpass.



    As a result traffic is currently being diverted onto Exit 5, until further notice. Williams Street is currently closed between Crosby and Larkin Streets.



    The accident is still currently under investigation.



    There is no further additional information available at this time. There will be further press releases issued as more information becomes available.


    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: Timmy on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 05:03 PM GMT+4
    Wow, how horrible.
    Terrific work on the pictures, Lawbound.
    I saw the police car on the overpass this morning, but since I was headed
    north I had no idea what had happened there.


    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: Wendy M. Levy on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 05:14 PM GMT+4
    *gasp* This is very scary and sad.
    Thanks Floyd for copying the report, and thanks Lawbound for your reporting and pictures.

    It's hard not to sit here and feel awful for everyone involved, especially after seeing the condition of the cab and the burn marks on the bridge's columns. Goodness.
    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: MMulligan on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 05:32 PM GMT+4
    He could have fallen asleep...or maybe the roads were icy...is this a result of the budget crisis in Montpelier. How were the roads between 7am and 8am?
    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: Lise on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 05:45 PM GMT+4
    I woke up this morning, pre-dawn, to an incredible pelting of ice and
    sleet (outside) -- it was still dark, so not yet 6 AM. Then I heard snow
    plows on our street. Then I fell asleep and reawoke to the sound of
    sirens and all of our electronic devices beeping at us to tell us the power
    was out.

    There seem to be a lot of accidents on I91 between Exits 1 and 2,
    often in bad weather. I'm sure ice was a factor, but there's also
    something about that piece of road. The driver of the truck was trying to
    negotiate that curve when he wiped out.
    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: MMulligan on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 06:05 PM GMT+4
    I am a truck driver...we noticed the area from the boarder through Brattleboro generally were not taken care of when it was snowing and ice as regular policy.

    I wonder what the federal dictates are with maintaining the interstates in snowy or icy weather?

    All the truck drivers around would say...they aren’t spending the money on maintaining the roads in snowy and icy weather like they use to.

    Generally the state police can make a call for the salt trucks...but sometimes they give up....because they know nothing is available. The state police know the conditions of the roads....but they are hesitant to whistleblow on their state employee brothers.

    In eastern Mass, they had issues with the state police and tow truck owners...if the roads were icy, the state and local police would got a kick back from the tow truck operator....the quart of booze at Christmas.

    So there was an economic incentive with allowing spinouts and accidents to occur.



    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: swami on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 06:14 PM GMT+4
    Mmulligan,can you prove any of your outragous charges? Slandering
    Troopers? For a qt of booze? Please....Are you suggesting that Troopers
    would risk peoples lives for some whiskey? Are you insane?
    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: MMulligan on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 07:11 PM GMT+4
    Let start by talking about the value of an accident....what the accident investigators see. All accidents effectively takes a random camera snap shot of a bureaucracy and systems surrounding a accident....nobody is allowed to posture for the cameras. It’s an invaluable tool of figuring out what’s wrong with the system. So what did the picture show us?

    Why do I get tasked with asking all the stupid questions that nobody wants to ask...it’s gotten me in so much trouble.

    How hard would it be if you did an investigation...back tracking with, where were all the state highway trucks, say between 5 am and 8 am at this end of the state. How many times did they pass that bridge? They must got recordings of the state police phone calls...did they know the conditions of the roads, did they report it to the state interstate highway authorities, and did they respond....did the state police care about the safety of the driving public at this end of the state. Does the state interstate authority know that they have a lack of state resources...they know they can’t meet the needs of a storm....thus they are indifferent with the safety of the driving public.

    How about the local police...did they know the conditons of the I91...know there were accidents ongoing...but did nothing to correct the situations. What impressions do the local police have with maintaining the interstates...I know it's a brotherhoods.

    What about your politicians...are they indifferent to the safety of the driving public...do they care a bit about the condition of the interstate highways and all their accidents.

    How hard would it be to backtrack in all the snow and ice storms say in the last 10 years....seeing if there are any trends with accidents and spinout on the interstates.

    What is the reliability with the plowing, salting and sanding trucks at this end of the state...do they have excess breakdowns and unmet maintenance needs...are they getting too old to be reliable?

    Did you have enough equipment employees...such that all available equipment was on the roads or necessary for the conditions?

    If there are shortcomings with the state police and interstate authorities...why didn't these agencies inform the public...


    Questions are more important than evidence.










    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: MMulligan on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 07:19 PM GMT+4
    That is how you honor the dead and injured...you unflinchingly ask the difficult questions!

    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 07:30 PM GMT+4
    (This isn't in reference to today's tragedy, but to other comments.)
    I generally find that truck drivers are overconfident in their ability to drive safely in poor conditions, and insensitive to the safety of other drivers on the road. I'm sure Spoon and steam shovel will excoriate me for saying it, but it has been my experience.
    And trucking companies, with a few exceptions, are more concerned about profits than highway safety. For less than $50 each, every trailer in the U.S. could be equipped with a device that prevents auto drivers from being blinded by road spray when being passed by a truck and trailer on wet roads. You may have seen these devices on trailers owned by UPS - one of the few companies that takes your safety seriously. They look like brushes mounted along the side of the trailer over the rear truck and trailer tires. http://www.industrial-brush.com/ap_RV_trk.html (bottom of the page.)
    As I understand it, there was a federal law proposed that would have required the devices, but the trucking lobby worked hard to get it shot down.

    -Maus

    ---
    Psyche!

    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: cbridge on Wednesday, February 06 2008 @ 11:13 AM GMT+4
    Yes, I've noticed that over the years. It's not just the truck drivers, who,
    as professionals, ought to know better. Too many people drive like
    maniacs, sublimely convinced that they're bullet-proof.
    Anyone can see there's a steep grade & a long curve there, & anyone
    who's been driving more than a few months knows control is harder in
    those circumstances, snow or no snow. Being fairly paranoid (& convinced
    that suicidal behavior should not involve others) I have always taken that
    stretch of road a little slower & paid a bit of extra attention. I assume the
    people flying past me are the same types as the ones who treat Green
    River Rd. as a branch of the Indianapolis Speedway.

    Sometimes, when you have to be out in dangerous weather, there isn't
    much you can do other than take care & hope, & it isn't always enough.

    MMulligan - I really doubt that anyone who has ever extracted a mangled
    body from a crashed vehicle would risk a recurrance for a bottle of booze.
    And I don't think the highway dept. in this state is indifferent - far less
    criminally negligent - in matters of safety.
    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: Brandon on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 08:38 PM GMT+4
    MMulligan, why would you say this stuff and blame everyone but possibly .... the driver? How about eyewitness reports that this truck was doing approx 80 mph, swerving in and out of traffice when it (THE TRUCK) hit another vehicle before going off the bridge. Suppose all the corruption you speak of arranged for this to happen?
    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: babalu on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 07:46 PM GMT+4
    There seems to me also, that's there's just something about that piece of road- a number of terrible crashes over the past several years. The road kind of tilts and banks at the same time as the curve begins and the road begins to pitch in toward the bridge. I'm sorry another life was lost.

    ---
    If there is no wind, ROW!
    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: cgrotke on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 07:54 PM GMT+4
    I know... something "feels" wrong about the road, especially coming
    north through that part of 91.

    Exit One kinda throws you... you think that driving straight ahead is
    the right thing and your eyes are over to the right - then it all goes
    left.

    Coming to that curve, the road doesn't give you many clues. Usually
    there is some banking or something that helps push a car into the
    right direction.

    91 has to get through a tight space there. It was designed and built
    when cars didn't typically go 70-80 mph, so they probably assumed
    that it would be safe in the 55-65 mph range. I'm just guessing.

    Still, many a time I've thought about accident potential driving
    through that stretch, and most of our bad accidents seem to happen
    around there (the ski bus comes to mind...).
    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: babalu on Wednesday, February 06 2008 @ 02:58 AM GMT+4
    Yes; the bus, and another death since as well as a number of other accidents both prior to and after the bus - and my sons were travelling southbound and saw a car just careen out of control and flip onto it's roof, then kept on sliding.. not every accident has made it into the local paper. Knowing this, I make a point of at least staying in the travel lane in that area.
    I wonder if the state keeps any stats on that section of road; and why there wouldn't be at least a flashing light if the plan isn't to just rip that road apart and redesign the pitch and angles - even slightly would make a difference?
    Fat chance, I would guess; even with all the accidents on route 9 coming and going from West. B., not much has changed over the years.
    And then, to pass on Williams street and see all the iron supports added to the cement piers - I don't like being on the bridge at all - I curious as to what the DOT will conclude from the upcoming inspection.

    ---
    If there is no wind, ROW!
    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: Chef on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 07:36 PM GMT+4
    There's a better pic on the reformer's web site. Lawbound you did some
    great photo taking. Thanks for the quick reporting.
    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: MMulligan on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 07:54 PM GMT+4
    How many accidents have occurred on this bridge...I think I remember another truck accident...how many fatalities? How many car and truck accidents occurred on that bridge? Do we got a killer bridge here...is the design a “daddy” killer. Do we have defective railings...is it known that trucks’ challenge the structure of the rails in the turn within accidents that have the potential of fatalities. Were we indifferent as a community to death and suffering of innocent people who traveled through our community...where we have these repetitive accidents and we don’t do anything about them. Why can’t we engineer a railing which could contain a truck in an accident...get them to the other side of the ravine! Are the interstate bridges in Brattleboro excessively dangerous...can we mitigate these defects.

    Maybe we need a straight bridge...it is a defective design when initially built...with the hills, ravines and curving bridge. Do bridges that have curves in them...are they more dangerous than straight bridges.

    Did the community have a flashing warning sign that they flip on when ice and snow is present...this is an extremely dangerous bridge when snowing and ice...we had this many accident here.
    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: Lawbound on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 08:05 PM GMT+4
    Well here's an update. I can look out my apartment window and I can
    still see several workers down on the highway (N.bound). I see a
    couple
    of the big orange state trucks. I did happen upon a story about the
    crash
    that claims to have had seven people transported to BMH. I did run
    into
    a cameraman from Channel 3 News and he said the station will be
    covering the story this evening.

    Reporting from the front lines...



    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: MMulligan on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 08:52 PM GMT+4
    You going to have to ask the typical question of the truck driver and company...how was his logs. What was his work schedule like in the last few weeks? When did he start this morning, how long was he driving...where was he heading...was he late...what is the record of his company with safety. How many tickets did he have....ect?


    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: MMulligan on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 09:26 PM GMT+4
    Two bit trucking company...SAHI TRUCKING....a broker. I’d asked how did they pay him...cents or dollars per mile...or by the hour...

    This guy is from NJ or NYC...they haven’t seen any snow this year...so he might be utterly insensitive with what to expect in snow or ice.



    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: Wendy M. Levy on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 09:29 PM GMT+4
    Wow. There's a lot of insensitive and potentially libelous finger-pointing here: towards the dead driver, the state police, the dept of transportation.

    If anyone is going to publicly accuse public officials of taking booze in exchange for ignoring road safety, you may want to hire an attorney. You may need it to defend yourself in the future.

    Of course I hope everyone asks pertinent questions, sure, but not make various accusations without being on-the-scene at the actual accident or being privy to conversations between the emergency responders and other officials regarding this event.

    This is why in my original post I asked only for those who had witnessed this event to respond to my query. The "well I heard that..." and "this one time I..." static is, well, a lot of static.

    I'm not saying you have to stop it, though. Carry on if you feel you must.

    *sigh*,
    -W
    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: MMulligan on Wednesday, February 06 2008 @ 12:08 AM GMT+4
    I would never say anything on ibrat that got me anywhere close to being related to libel or slanderous. Everything I wrote about was based on the facts as I see it.
    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: Perceptionist on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 09:55 PM GMT+4
    www.lifeocity.ipbfree.com

    I was able to speak with some volunteer fire officers and have added what I have heard about the 2/5/08 accident to Lifeocity. Not the same story that was reported here. I have added a few pics also.

    P

    www.lifeocity.ipbfree.com

    My heart and prayers go out to the driver and passenger of the Big Rig and their families...

    ---
    lifeocity.sppreebb.com

    We Don't Know What Happened
    Authored by: Lise on Tuesday, February 05 2008 @ 11:03 PM GMT+4
    As a lot of people have pointed out, there could be any number of
    possible contributing factors to this morning's accident. We might be able
    to make educated guesses about some, and they might even be right,
    but we don't know, either way or how much about any of them. That's all
    I have to say.
    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: conductorchris on Wednesday, February 06 2008 @ 03:09 AM GMT+4
    Yes, it seems like every snowstorm there is an accident at that bridge - either a truck or SUV doesn't make it.

    The problem is that people's speed is too fast for the conditions. Either change the road geometry . . . or change people's speed.

    Snow attracts skiers from Connecticut and New York who aren't used to driving in it. And don't realize their SUV's are actually WORSE in the snow, not better (high center of gravity, etc). They are the one's most often driving too fast normally. (a friend jokes that I-91 has two lanes: the right hand lane for Vermonters, the left for out-of-staters).

    What happens as you come north from Mass into Vermont is the temperature drops ten degrees or so. But the people from elsewhere who aren't used to this don't notice it. This bridge is the first test. You know, bridge freeze before roadways - but most people don't pay attention to those signs. The ice on this bridge (and it's a big bridge with lots of cold air under it) comes as a surprise to the drivers who've been lulled into expecting the same conditions they had 30 minutes ago.

    And yes, it's on a curve. A reverse curve. Downhill. Ice on a curve is worse. Drivers inexperienced with our conditions will instinctively brake - which is even worse! Added to this is that there are no shoulders on this bridge - no margin for error and the curbs will bounce you off into the other lane . . . and perhaps off the bridge!

    So this is a spot we all need to slow down in bad weather. Since out of staters don't know this, I'd suggest a much more strongly worded sign in the northbound direction would help. ("Warning - upcoming bridge is treacherous in storms! Slow Down! Many who didn't have died here!") If I saw a highway sign like that, I'd think about it! (I think it would have to be two signs, actually - that's too many words to read on one sign).
    State Police Update
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Wednesday, February 06 2008 @ 01:37 PM GMT+4
    STATE OF VERMONT
    DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
    VERMONT STATE POLICE PRESS RELEASE
    FATAL MOTOR VEHICLE CRASH
    UPDATED as of 1815hrs 2-5 08
    CASE#: 08D200393 TROOPER: Christopher Loyzelle
    STATION: Brattleboro CONTACT#: (802)254-2382
    DATE/TIME: 02-05-2008 approximately 0730 hrs LOCATION (specific): I91 NB, Williams St. Overpass

    VEHICLE #1 OPERATOR: O’Neil, Thomas
    AGE: 75 SEAT BELT -Yes
    CITY, STATE OF RESIDENCE: Wilbraham, MA DESCRIPTION OF VEHICLE: 2005 Dodge Caravan
    DAMAGE TO VEHICLE: Heavy front end damage, totaled

    VEHICLE #2 OPERATOR: MEDINA, Edvin
    AGE: 35
    SEAT BELT? UNK.
    CITY, STATE OF RESIDENCE: South Plainfield NJ
    DESCRIPTION OF VEHICLE: 2003 Freightliner Tractor, 1998 Lufkin Trailer. Vehicle owned by SAHI Trucking of Union NJ.
    DAMAGE TO VEHICLE: Totally destroyed

    INJURIES Operator #1 – O’Neil – minor head laceration, treated at BMH and releasedPassenger in vehicle #1 Francis Keefe (65 of Springfield MA), fractured right arm, treated at BMH
    Operator #2 - MEDINA – deceased.
    HOSPITAL: Brattleboro Memorial Hospital WEATHER: Rain/SleetROAD COND: Slush

    SUMMARY OF CRASH: Vermont State Police continue to investigate a fatal Commercial Vehicle crash in Brattleboro. Local Troopers, along with the Vermont State Police Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Team and Vermont State Police Accident Reconstruction Team continue the investigation at this time.
    Preliminary investigation indicates Vehicle #1 was northbound on I91 when the driver lost control of the vehicle. The vehicle hit the guard rails and came to a position of rest on the north side of the bridge in the breakdown lane. Vehicle #2, was traveling behind vehicle #1 and also lost control. Vehicle #2 went through the guardrails on the west side of the overpass and fell approximately 61 feet to the ground below. When the vehicle broke through the guardrails fuel spilled and caught on fire, which engulfed the tractor. Initial reports that there was contact between the two vehicles were found to be unsubstantiated.
    Due to the damage to the north bound bridge and the potential that the south bound bridge was struck by the falling truck, the Vermont Agency of Transportation (VTRANS) brought in engineers to inspect the overpass before allowing traffic to resume using it. The bridges were found to be structurally sound. The Southbound lane was then opened at approximately 1115 hrs. The northbound lane remained closed while investigators worked and remains closed while concrete barriers are placed to replace the missing guard rail. The northbound bridge will be a one lane bridge for some time. Cause of the crash is still under investigation; weather does appear to be a factor.
    Agencies responding to this incident include the Brattleboro Police, Fire and Public Works Departments, Vermont Agency of Transportation, Rescue Inc, Windham County Sheriff’s Department and Vermont DMV. Anyone having witnessed the crash or having other information is asked to contact Trooper Chris Loyzelle at the Vermont State Police Brattleboro Barracks (802)254-2382. Press inquiries should be directed to Lt. Rick Hopkins at the same number.

    ---
    Psyche!
    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: MMulligan on Wednesday, February 06 2008 @ 02:48 PM GMT+4
    Why don’t you ask the governor or politician’s for an immediate public meeting about Brattleboro bridges and interstate? Have them bring all their state stats...well they could have it on the internet before the meeting. Douglas could demand that all the involved agencies heads’ testify in the meeting. We live in a democracy don’t we...of is it a democro-legal liability where everyone fears the truth.

    Generally there are issues with Vermont spending all their road monies on Burlington, Rutland and Montpelier....starving Brattleboro. I’d be fighting to gets some monies spent in our area.

    Everyone knows I 91 was built in the late 1950’s...effectively it is obsolete. We all know all the bridges and overpasses are crumbling as we speak.

    The truck driver was trying to miss the Van...he’s a hero?

    What has interested me for years...is how accidents are entered into our state and federal data bases. How transparent this information is...the ease of access...is extremely important for our nation. You would have like a google maps...where all the stats, data and accidents are embedded into it. Generally throughout the states...it is well known that the reporting of car and truck accidents, it has very poor reliability with getting accident information added to the state’s and federal accessible data bases. You should think about that when you next hear your state fatality, accident and injury rate....it’s probably inaccurate. Don’t get me talking about the motivations of governments’ and business interest...who have a interest with under counting accident rates.

    We should all have an internet sight...where we can call up all the current and historic information on any stretch of road. Our media and newspapers’ should have immediate access to this information for every accident...to hammer home with how dangerous a road has become. We wring our hands over the crumbling state of our infrastructures witness the Minneapolis bridge collapse...it’s much larger than our transportation issues, say water....but we should really be terrorized about our dysfunction in the way we collect transportation information and project it to the public and governments. It is all about having a complete picture of the systems...and manipulating the information, where we make it actional before the accident.

    I like this word geospatial...you could have a satellite image of Vermont with a google map/ google earth embedded in it...and all our stats and accidents embedded in it. You could dial up the magnification on a particular bridge...where all of bridge inspection reports are obtainable....you would even push a link to any particular deficient area of the bridge. Everyone tends to get upset when see a rusty picture of a bridge...they focus their politicians’ on it.

    I’d rather think about the meaning of this government agency...than have sex... http://www.usgs.gov/science/science.php?term=445 ...graphic information systems (GIS).

    I really get excited when I see information represented in this manner:...national and state stream flow. Imagine if we had all our transportation information represented in this manner:
    http://water.usgs.gov/waterwatch/index.php?m=real&w=gmap&r=vt


    “Charlie on the M.T.A. Song” ...“No he never returned”
    Authored by: MMulligan on Thursday, February 07 2008 @ 06:29 PM GMT+4
    “Charlie on the M.T.A. Song” ...“No he never returned”

    "Did he ever return,
    No he never returned
    And his fate is still unlearn'd
    He may ride forever
    'neath the streets of Boston (Brattleboro Vt)
    He's the man who never returned."

    ****,

    Is the song a metaphor for how we live our lives?

    I have gotten on that M.T.A. subway system many times....and couldn’t get off. As a metaphor, have you ever been on a MTA subway car....and couldn’t get off. How would you express or define it....a MTA subway system that you couldn’t extradite yourself from?

    It is interesting.....are we talking about an individual, organization or sub group of an organization?

    How would I fix that error...we got to talk about vantage point. From who I am now, or from Mark’s position, or me 20 years ago...or from the vantage of what I have to lose. Am I trying to fix me, the organization, or our society. Have I been beaten down so bad, all I am trying to do is survive, survival mode, am I a multi-millionaire without any future economic concerns...am I trying to be ethical or moral?

    Who is in charge of me?

    More later,

    Thanks,

    mike

    http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ The_MTA_Song


    Let me tell you the story
    Of a man named Charlie
    On a tragic and fateful day
    He put ten cents in his pocket,
    Kissed his wife and family
    Went to ride on the MTA

    Charlie handed in his dime
    At the Kendall Square Station
    And he changed for Jamaica Plain
    When he got there the conductor told him,
    'One more nickel.'
    Charlie could not get off that train.

    Chorus:
    Did he ever return,
    No he never returned
    And his fate is still unlearn'd
    He may ride forever
    'neath the streets of Boston
    He's the man who never returned.

    Now all night long
    Charlie rides through the tunnels
    Saying, 'What will become of me?
    How can I afford to see
    My sister in Chelsea
    Or my cousin in Roxbury?'

    Charlie's wife goes down
    To the Scollay Square station
    Every day at quarter past two
    And through the open window
    She hands Charlie a sandwich
    As the train comes rumblin' through.
    - Chorus

    As his train rolled on
    Through Greater Boston
    Charlie looked around and sighed,
    'Well, I'm sore and disgusted
    And I'm absolutely busted;
    I guess this is my last long ride.'

    Now you citizens of Boston,
    Don't you think it's a scandal
    That the people have to pay and pay
    Vote for Walter A. O'Brien
    And fight the fare increase
    Get poor Charlie off the MTA.
    - Chorus


    "Charlie on the M.T.A. Song" ..."No he never returned"
    Authored by: MMulligan on Thursday, February 07 2008 @ 07:44 PM GMT+4
    Oh boy, I want a piece of that...is the impeccable Vermont bond rating worth more than a human life and injury....discussing our transportation issues.

    I’ll bet you this bond thing is a right wing ideological tool...the ownerships society...”the “I hate the government crowd’.

    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: Lawbound on Friday, March 21 2008 @ 01:04 PM GMT+4
    I noticed a couple of day ago that the state has replace the missing
    section of guardrails that was a result from this accident. Thought some
    people might like to hear the update.
    Fatal Accident On I-91 This Morning
    Authored by: MMulligan on Friday, March 21 2008 @ 02:45 PM GMT+4
    From the ground looking up under the area of the broken guard rail...you can see the failed areas clearly seeing new concrete. Meaning, the concrete failed on the stressed side of the anchor bolt leaving a v-notch depression of missing concrete.

    It’s interesting; they put the new anchor bolts right smack in the middle of the failed concrete areas of the initial anchor bolts