Authored by: xteeth on Sunday, October 19 2008 @ 04:50 PM GMT+4

I don't know how many of you have been involved in these attempts at green energy but as much as I wish to encourage it and think it necessary and hopeful, in the past the initial efforts were fraught with difficulty. I can remember hearing and doing research on solar water heating back in the 70's. Without the government grants none was even in the neighborhood of saving anything and always the expected life was exceeded by the payback. So often, if you read the fine print on, for instance, computer hard drives it says stuff like 100,000 hours MTBF (mean time before failure). When I first saw this claim, no one had had a computer for 100,000 hours. That's eleven and a half years if you leave it on every day all day. All plastics have some kind of half life as ultraviolet rays break them down. It surely must be thought amusing that that hugely plastic composite decking now so common is guaranteed for thirty years and it was only invented ten or so years ago. Go look at your boat's windshield. Look at your thermal windows. How many of them have condensation between the "sealed" panes? My experience with sea water is that it is one of the worst long term corrosive things in the world. What do you expect the lifetime to be of a wind turbine like the ones that they are going to put into Cape Cod bay? High speed, high power things subjected to coastal conditions. I don't care how many graphite fibers there may be. Look at the erosion of anything left outside. Entropy is a powerful force. Water works harder than anyone I know.

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"Some people cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go." Oscar Wilde

Authored by: local on Sunday, October 19 2008 @ 06:02 PM GMT+4

Authored by: Maus Anon E on Sunday, October 19 2008 @ 06:42 PM GMT+4

I wonder if Vermont Yankee's crack engineering & maintenance teams repaired the turbines?

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The Republican Party: Where "having it both ways" isn't only about interns.

Authored by: asegar on Monday, October 20 2008 @ 09:06 PM GMT+4

My home has been heated by an active solar hot water system for the last twenty five years. The system provides nearly all of the domestic hot water and a third of the total heating needs of the home (another third comes from passive solar, and three cords of wood supplies the rest.) The system is still running fine. It has needed a change of antifreeze once, and I replaced the storage tanks a couple of years ago since one of them sprang a leak (after 23 years).

My solar system has paid for itself about four times over by now. Every year it continues to save me money.

The system is much simpler than a standard oil-fired furnace. How many furnaces last twenty five years? The solar collectors are made of glass and copper - the same materials windows and plumbing systems are made of. There's not much to go wrong.

If you have a southern exposure available for your home in the Northeast U.S., solar hot water has been economical for a long time. We have known for twenty five years how to make systems that last for a long time. The systems are expensive, but are a far better investment than putting your money in the bank, let alone the stock market these days.

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-Adrian-

Authored by: cgrotke on Sunday, October 19 2008 @ 06:55 PM GMT+4

I saw the story in the Rutland Herald.

The story said they were older model turbines with bigger blades than are
needed now. Totally destroyed when they came loose in very high winds.
No people or animals hurt, as far as they could tell.

Authored by: Christian Avard on Sunday, October 19 2008 @ 08:48 PM GMT+4

A while back lightning strike hit one of the blades. GMP repaired it.
That same blade was what caused the chain reaction and knocked off
the other blades. The winds were also leftover remnants of Hurricane
Ike, a unusual weather circumstance. Other than that, the other
towers were fine during all the winds.

My hunch is this was an anomaly due to how it was repaired to begin
with. They also don't make windmills that size anymore so maybe
there was some old age to it as well. Who knows. I also think GMP is
a helluva lot more competent and truthful in handling these kinds of
issues as opposed to Vermont Yankee.





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"A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory." - Steven Wright, comedian

Authored by: mr.mike on Monday, October 20 2008 @ 12:45 AM GMT+4

Thanks for reporting this PR. I tried to find this story a week or so ago and mums the word. What is real interesting is the spokeperson for the turbine said it would be accessed as to whether to replace it or not.

What? Not replace it? whats up with that. And what the bleep do we need a decommissioning fund for wind turbines anyway? Yeah that's right there is one.

Also, as it is now that wind turbine has officially polluted more than VY. It spilled 20 gallons of oil. That in itself in Vermont is a capital offense.

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"The function of socialism is to raise suffering to a higher level."
-- Norman Mailer

Authored by: Maus Anon E on Monday, October 20 2008 @ 01:05 AM GMT+4

I guess you don't remember the times VY released radioactive steam into the atmosphere.

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The Republican Party: Where "having it both ways" isn't only about interns.

Authored by: mr.mike on Monday, October 20 2008 @ 01:11 AM GMT+4

Care to refresh my memory.Or are you referring to hattie nestles letter in the guradian.

C'mon Maus. Be fair and balanced

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"The function of socialism is to raise suffering to a higher level."
-- Norman Mailer

Authored by: Maus Anon E on Monday, October 20 2008 @ 01:32 AM GMT+4

Well, I won't be faux, but just a couple weeks ago I was reading a 1973 newspaper with a "special report" on VY.

1973 was just one year after the plant began producing power. VY already had a poor record, and local people were already grousing about it.

Major complaints: the plant cost almost three times as much as had been estimated, it was running at half capacity, produced electricity a cost six times higher than had been predicted, had been repeatedly shut down for safety and other reasons, had "belched serious amounts" of radiation into the environment, and had faulty fuel rods that cost $2 million to replace.

I also remember more radioactive steam releases later in the 1970s.



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The Republican Party: Where "having it both ways" isn't only about interns.

Authored by: Christian Avard on Monday, October 20 2008 @ 01:42 AM GMT+4

While it's true 20 gallons of oil spilled, it was fully contained. I don't
think what happened would qualify as a capital offense. That's stretching
it.

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"A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory." - Steven Wright, comedian

Authored by: PutneyReject on Monday, October 20 2008 @ 02:11 AM GMT+4

If by "fully contained" you mean "sitting on the ground" I agree with you.

You sound like those VY apologists you always rail against. Pot meet kettle.

Authored by: Christian Avard on Monday, October 20 2008 @ 02:20 AM GMT+4

It was all cleaned up. I'll take my chances with a small spill than
something an accident at VY. That's more serious. This isn't.
Apples and oranges in my estimation... and no evacuation plan
necessary.

Face it. Things brake. This is not an ongoing problem in Searsburg. At
VY... how many problems have there been? According to Maus, it's been
inefficient since 1973. Not a good track record if you ask me.

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"A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory." - Steven Wright, comedian

Authored by: Maus Anon E on Monday, October 20 2008 @ 11:41 AM GMT+4

This was just about the most catastrophic event that could happen to a wind turbine. I don't think you really want to compare it to the most most catastrophic event that could occur at a nuclear fission plant.

Reading that 35 year old report put the overall problem with VY into focus for me. To borrow a current vernacular, VY is a pig that we've been putting lipstick on for 35 years. But it's still a pig. A 35-year-old pig.


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The Republican Party: Where "having it both ways" isn't only about interns.

Authored by: Christian Avard on Monday, October 20 2008 @ 03:04 PM GMT+4

I see your point but look at the costs of something going drastically
wrong at a wind facility versus the costs of something going drastically
wrong with a nuclear power plant. It's no comparison. Less impact on
people and the environment so I guess that's the plus side of wind
power. It's not perfect but I also think it's much better than nuclear.

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"A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory." - Steven Wright, comedian

Authored by: Maus Anon E on Monday, October 20 2008 @ 04:01 PM GMT+4

I think you'll see that was exactly my point.

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The Republican Party: Where "having it both ways" isn't only about interns.

Authored by: Christian Avard on Monday, October 20 2008 @ 04:40 PM GMT+4

OK... I'm obviously the kind of guy that has to be walked through things
in order to understand them... but you know that already.



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"A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory." - Steven Wright, comedian