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Free Doctor Visits, Medicine, and Care

Authored by: BrandonB on Wednesday, June 24 2009 @ 06:32 PM GMT+4

I for one, am afriaid of dying a in a socialist America. It is time for people to take responsibility for there own actions, I am a uninsured American, I accept that fact for now, and I sure don't want a bailout from anyone. CEOBAMA, apparently is reading a different constitution then I am. No where does is say the goverment is responsible for your healthcare. It doesn't mention healthcare. Healthcare is supposed to be worked out in a freemarket economy, but unfortuntly, we haven't let it with such programs as Medicad/care, and government programs that just won't, and never have worked. Regulation of the healthcare industry has driven costs up, and will continue to do so as long as we keep going to socialism in all aspects of our government. You want a real solution for healthcare? Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foXQbmZxWYY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eopposingviews%2Ecom%2Farticles%2Fvideo%2Dron%2Dpaul%2Don%2Dthe%2Du%2Ds%2Dhealth%2Dcare%2Dcrisis%2Dr%2D1245789710&feature=player_embedded

Free Doctor Visits, Medicine, and Care

Authored by: SpudHill on Wednesday, June 24 2009 @ 08:25 PM GMT+4

Brandon
As an uninsured citizen, if you are seriously injured or become mortally ill all the rest of us will have to absorb the cost of your treatment anyway in some manner or other. It is fantastical to think that you can be uninsured and somehow therefore "free". In fact, the cost will be higher since you are uninsured than if you were carrying some sort of coverage and therefore if for some reason you absolutely must have treatment it will cost all of us far more than if you were covered. I don't think you have a clear understanding of how all this works. So spare me, get some insurance and/or support some sort of general coverage for everyone.

Free Doctor Visits, Medicine, and Care

Authored by: tomaidh on Wednesday, June 24 2009 @ 09:53 PM GMT+4

Quote:"It is time for people to take responsibility for there (their) own actions"
Another quote:"I am a uninsured American"
Unless you are independently weathy, your actions are incredibly irresponsible. Should you encounter some serious medical expenses, who's gonna pay the bills? Daddy and Mommy? or the hospital you stiff?

Free Doctor Visits, Medicine, and Care

Authored by: cbridge on Wednesday, June 24 2009 @ 10:02 PM GMT+4

You really don't understand the facts here. They are available, easy to
find. Personal responsibility includes studying the facts before jumping to
an ideological conclusion.

Consider Acupuncture, Alternatives, as well

Authored by: NorahCook on Wednesday, June 24 2009 @ 08:59 PM GMT+4

I was covered for many years--while I had a job with benefits--and
not covered for years, also, such as right now, while I work as a
freelancer. And, I rarely require health services.

The best experiences in medicine I've ever had came from
acupuncture, herbs, and other alternative methods. Alternative
medicine can be much more effective with preventive, internal, and
chronic illness -- Western medicine is at its most amazing in acute
situations. A combination of the two could be the most outstanding
health care system possible.

A friend who is an acupuncturist sent this to me:

Please take a minute to send letters to your Congressional
representatives to urge them to support HR646, the Federal
Acupuncture Coverage Act, which would include acupuncture as a
covered benefit under Medicare.

http://www.rallycongress.com/aaaom/
Be sure to visit http://www.rallycongress.com/aaaom/ also.

Free Doctor Visits, Medicine, and Care

Authored by: cbridge on Wednesday, June 24 2009 @ 10:18 PM GMT+4

I think there are degrees within the weak mix, and we need to try to wring
as much out of it as possible (since it's probably what we'll get.) Public
option absolutely must be available - & available for all. Some
congressfolk have proposed capping the percentage of the population on
public option. BAD idea. Health care should not be a form of lotto. With
public option, there are real possibilities to influence the system as a
whole, pressure it to run more efficiently, make scamming for billions
much harder to do, get doctors, hospitals, & patients to behave in ways
that produce better care at less cost.

This has to be non-negotiable. While I always expected to disagree with
some of Obama's actions (& I do), I had counted on his intelligence.
Allowing the handmaidens of big pharma & the insurance racket to think
they can get him to sign a bill without public option is the first truly
unintelligent thing I have seen the guy do.

I am always amazed by the people who say, "How will we pay for it?" Well,
how do we pay for the mess we have now? The most expensive health
care system in the world, with far from the best outcomes? Really -
democracy does not equal stupidity! Capitalism does not equal stupidity!
I'm sick to death of being robbed & then told I should cheer for it.

I have a Dream...

Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Wednesday, June 24 2009 @ 11:00 PM GMT+4

Do you REALLY think that Obama is not for single-payer health care?
REALLY?? That's like saying that Hubert Humphrey was OPPOSED to
blacks having rights equal to whites in 1957, because he went along
with his mentor in the Senate, Majority Leader Lyndon Johnson, and
signed the watered down, meaningless 1957 civil rights bill that gave
blacks almost nothing---except a bit of a symbolic gain in a legal
footnote sort of way. Of course those who know how politics works
know that HHH truly cared about racial equality, and signed on in
1957 because he saw the watered down bill as the start of a process--
--that to walk away was worse and could set back the process, which
culminated later on in the historic 1965 legislation that DID grant
blacks and other minorities equal rights under federal law.

I know that it is a disappointment to most Americans that single payer
won't come up this time, but as Robert Reich says, Obama isn't
introducing it because he is a realist and a pragmatist and knows that
it not only can't pass (think 1957 with civil rights) but that if a
watered down bill doesn't pass this summer, it will be even worse.
The process must begin, and unfortunately this country is slow and
conservative in acting. I have a dream however that one day all
Americans, rich and poor, will get health care. I may not reach that
mountain with those future generations who get it, but I see a day
when it will happen, maybe built upon the foundation that the
Congress and the President lay this summer.

Wake up

Authored by: cbridge on Thursday, June 25 2009 @ 06:25 AM GMT+4

Buddy - PLEASE read more carefully. First, I did not talk about single
payer care. I am well aware of Obama's statements that he thinks single
payer is the way to go, but that it cannot be passed at this time.

I talked abour Obama's own proposal - PUBLIC OPTION. Further, I did
not, at any point, say that Obama "is not for" anything. I referred tp
Obama's recent statement that he would not necessarily veto a health bill
that does not contain a public option provision. Even if he is thinking this,
it is (I believe) a mistake to say it publicly at this point. It weakens his
negotiating position. It undermines the Democrats who are putting their
weight behind Obama's public option position. That is why I called his
statement "unintelligent". It is a strategic error & is quite atypical of him.

Obviously, I understand that he is for his own proposal! I want him to get
a bill from Congress that includes public option, because without it, we will
end up with a bill that compels people to buy private insurance, pouring
fresh billions into the scammers' coffers. Much of what is being proposed
in the way of cost reduction would difficult to impossible to achieve without
public option.

Again - I did not say what you criticize me for saying. You are really not
the only one who understands how politics works.

Wake up, please. Thank you. Oh, certainly; you're welcome.

Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Thursday, June 25 2009 @ 07:30 AM GMT+4

"Hey Martin Luther King: WAKE UP."

Cbridge,

You're right, I agree with your statement about Obama making a
strategic error. What he needs is a good head counter who can count
votes on the Hill for him. Isn't this Joe Biden's forte? I actually think
that YOU are one of the few who also "gets how things get done
politically". You, like me, have probably read Eric Redman's classic
"Dance of Legislation" and also Fenno's "Congressmen in Committees"
which were core requirements in my poly sci major. I think also that it
should be required of poly sci majors that they study at least ONE
lobby firm and that they work from the other side of the revolving
door (between lobbyists and representatives) for a
Congressman(woman) or Senator, in D.C. like I did. Most Americans
haven't a CLUE about how special interests run our government, how
deals work in Washington, and why politicians make public positions
more for strategy than for real belief.

Free Doctor Visits, Medicine, and Care

Authored by: vtstream on Thursday, June 25 2009 @ 04:28 AM GMT+4

There are far too many people who run to a doctor at the first sign of a common cold. Their child gets a runny nose and they are off to the doctor. Or they get a headache or get constipated or feel achy and they feel they need something to make them feel better. Whatever the doctor says is gospel.

There is no such thing as "free" medical services. Someone has to pay for it somewhere. If we are going to make health care available to everyone, we cannot afford to pay for unnecessary medical treatment. Most doctors are trained to treat minor aches and pains with pharmaceuticals that can cause more harm than good. Rarely will a doctor inquire about the patient's diet or level of physical activity. Frequently, unnecessary tests are performed that require very expensive equipment and lab work.
Controlling the cost of health care must include some way to sort unnecessary treatment, drugs and testing from the truly necessary.
I believe medical care should be available to everyone who needs it. Please note, I said "needs", not "wants". Determining the difference between the two is difficult but necessary.

I think that a national single payer health care system would offer most Americans the freedom and flexibility to work wherever they want. As it is now, many people hold onto a job they hate because it has good health insurance. What a waste of talent it is to have someone working at a job they are ill suited for (no pun intended) because they cannot otherwise afford health insurance.
Imagine how many people might even start their own businesses if they weren't dependent on corporate health insurance through their employer. A national single payer system would allow workers to move freely between jobs of their choosing. That is one big reason why those who control Big Business don't want a national health care system. It would be one less way to control labor.

Free Doctor Visits, Medicine, and Care

Authored by: cbridge on Thursday, June 25 2009 @ 06:29 AM GMT+4

As I understand it, this is Chris' position also. His unqualified use of the
word "free" is misleading here.

Free Doctor Visits, Medicine, and Care

Authored by: cgrotke on Thursday, June 25 2009 @ 09:39 AM GMT+4

I did intentionally use the word Free a lot, to contrast it with
expensive and almost useless insurance, and to use a term that more
people understand than "single payer", which I think most people do
not quite grasp.

But I do know it gets paid for by taxes, like education, and fire and
police protection:

"anything less than free healthcare for everyone, paid for by we the
people, seems to be a wasted opportunity to catch up with the other
industrialized nations of the world."

Free Doctor Visits, Medicine, and Care

Authored by: tomaidh on Thursday, June 25 2009 @ 01:09 PM GMT+4

Quote:
"There are far too many people who run to a doctor at the first sign of a common cold"
True enough. But there are others who have serious problems, but can't afford a doctor, so they wait until they can't put it off anymore and then go to the emergency room.
Read this fron a friend, who is grateful that he had insurance.
http://www.alternet.org/story/140759/i_would_likely_be_dead_by_now_if_it_wasn't_for_one_thing_..._health_insurance/

Free Doctor Visits, Medicine, and Care

Authored by: paulgardner on Thursday, June 25 2009 @ 06:42 AM GMT+4

I'm for socialized everything.
Well not quite everything. Not my hamburger or my building contractor, but police, fire, schools, water & sewage, electricity, phone, banks to some extent, farms? - much rather Uncle Sam than ADM or Cargill! and health.
Ask a Dane how many of his countrymen go bankrupt each year to cover healthcare costs from catastrophic illness. They look at you funny.
In a socialized system the cost burden per person is half what it is in the USA (profit is a COST - they don't have that COST. They also don't have the administrative cost of trying to deny benefits to patients, something the for profit system spends 20 - 30% of their budget doing).

BTW: private insurance does exist in Canada and elsewhere, but it doesn't rule the roost like here.
When we're the only ones in the world doing things a particular way and we're not half as happy with the outcome as all the rest, it might be time to ditch what we're doing and join the rest of the world.

BTW #2: not only is the world not partaking of our insanity - we weren't until 28 years ago. That's when for profit health care became legal - before that all hospitals were non-profits.

Free Doctor Visits, Medicine, and Care

Authored by: tomaidh on Thursday, June 25 2009 @ 01:15 PM GMT+4

I don't know who first said "Insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting a diffrent outcome".

Free Doctor Visits, Medicine, and Care

Authored by: annikee on Thursday, June 25 2009 @ 07:38 PM GMT+4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytNoiQ8LkS8

---
Down with Goldstein!

Free Doctor Visits, Medicine, and Care

Authored by: annikee on Thursday, June 25 2009 @ 07:49 PM GMT+4

THE CHRIST CALLED US TO CARE FOR THE WEAKEST AMONGST US. WHO ARE THE WEAKEST? IT'S NOT FOR US TO JUDGE; JUST HELP THEM. IF YOU DISMISS THAT MESSAGE YOU ARE FALLEN. PERIOD.

---
Christ was a Communist, in the purest sense.

The Original Communist?

Authored by: paulgardner on Thursday, June 25 2009 @ 10:14 PM GMT+4

I've often thought Christ was the first communist.

Is it true that communism will only work as Marx envisioned it in small groups; i.e. less than 200?