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    Should Linking To Newspapers Be Allowed?    
    Thursday, July 02 2009 @ 09:33 AM GMT+5
    Contributed by: Lise

    MediaAs newspapers struggle to re-invent themselves in the 21st century, a lot of ideas have been bandied about. The most recent proposal, first raised at the recent Congressional hearings on the Future of Journalsm and later on the blog of an influential federal judge, is the most radical yet and is aimed squarely at bloggers. In short, the industry is floating the idea of seeking a change to American copyright law that would forbid Internet linking to anyone else’s copyrighted content without the copyright-holder’s express permission.

    Although this proposal seems counterproductive to the newspapers themselves (unless their goal is to reduce their audience share), let’s take them at their word just for the sake of argument. What if we were to proactively give the newspapers what they say they want, and stop linking to them?

    Of course, that might not be enough. If you read Judge Posner’s blog entry (delicious irony there) you’ll see that he goes even further than linking. He suggests a change to the definition of fair use to block bloggers from using even short quotations or paraphrases of copyrighted content, whether or not that content is then used as a springboard for the blogger’s own commentary. See for yourself:

    Expanding copyright law to bar online access to copyrighted materials without the copyright holder's consent, or to bar linking to or paraphrasing copyrighted materials without the copyright holder's consent, might be necessary to keep free riding on content financed by online newspapers from so impairing the incentive to create costly news-gathering operations that news services like Reuters and the Associated Press would become the only professional, nongovernmental sources of news and opinion.
    - Judge Richard Posner, June 23, 2009
    Here’s another take from the testimony of James M. Moroney at the recent Future of Journalism hearings before Congress:

    Aggregators, search engines, and other online news forums routinely receive a free ride on the investments that newspapers are making in local journalism. Newspaper publishers should be able to obtain reasonable compensation from Internet companies that reproduce newspaper content for a commercial purpose. Many of these operators copy or summarize a link to newspaper content in order to drive search or audience to Web sites, then sell advertising wrapped around this newspaper content. The concern here is not the personal use of newspaper-generated content, which the majority of newspaper publishers willingly offer for free to individual Internet users, but the use of newspaper generated content for someone else's commercial gain.
    -James M. Moroney, May 6, 2009
    Our question as moderators is this: Should iBrattleboro.com — which is, after all, an ad-bearing online news site — change its policies to forbid all reference to newspaper articles, including quotation, paraphrase, and link? Would this be good for the newspapers? Would this be good for iBrattleboro readers and contributors?

    It’s worthwhile to mention that since iBrattleboro is a hyperlocal, citizen journalism site in which the vast majority of the content is original, we would be little affected by such a change. My feeling is that should we institute such a policy, the Brattleboro Reformer and Rutland Herald would probably grant us blanket permission to link to their stories — provided they haven’t gone to a pay-to-view system as so many newspapers are now (again) considering.

    Although we feel sure we’re not the freeloaders the newspapers are after, we do think newspapers are important and would like to be part of the solution, not the problem. To that end, we’re asking the question here on iBrattleboro in an effort to get the discussion going in a positive direction.

    To link or not to link — what do you think? Feel free to share your thoughts in the comments below.

     

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  • Should Linking To Newspapers Be Allowed? | 19 comments | Create New Account
    The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they may say.
    A ban on newspaper linking? RUBBISH!
    Authored by: shaw on Thursday, July 02 2009 @ 10:34 AM GMT+5
    Newspapers are supposed to uphold the First Amendment and the "freedom of information" ideology. Considering that most newspapers now integrate and link photos and material from various Web sites (including YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, blogs etc. etc.) the idea of a ban on linking newspaper articles on Web sites is silly.
    Should Linking To Newspapers Be Allowed?
    Authored by: Rolf on Thursday, July 02 2009 @ 10:37 AM GMT+5

    Wow.

    I have linked to them so often, and not even thought that it would be to their detriment, as their stories are available on the web.

    I assumed that I was funneling more viewers to their site, and thereby increasing what they could charge advertisers. Ad rates are always determined by circulation.

    Well, my personal two cents is,

    1) the professional creators of the info should be able to retain some benefit from creating that info

    2) they should be the ones to determine what is financially beneficial to their organization.

    Its a little complicated, as the reporters and editors who make the news are probably not even consulted about these decisions, just the publishers. But, still, if they, the publishers, are opposed to links, then I guess i would still let them decide what is most likely to help keep their newspapers afloat.


    Rolf




    ---
    Dreams Trump Video
    Should Linking To Newspapers Be Allowed?
    Authored by: cgrotke on Thursday, July 02 2009 @ 11:14 AM GMT+5
    Some news organizations have said that your linking to them is stealing.

    They say Google is stealing from them by showing the headline and first
    few words of a story.

    They are serious.
    Should Linking To Newspapers Be Allowed?
    Authored by: Rolf on Thursday, July 02 2009 @ 01:13 PM GMT+5
    Well I understand that now and even though I think its short sited, and probably not beneficial to their economic interests,

    I still think that they should be the ones to choose what links are possible.

    Their economic analysis might be better than mine, and they are paid to ensure the continued survival of their news organizations. These organizations require money to survive, and its their job to protect their existence.

    Still, seems dumb to cut back on traffic to their sites. I wonder what their thinking is? Their must be some analysis that supports their thinking. I don't think it's possible that they are just dumb printers. There must be some business consideration that I am unaware of.

    I thought everything was determined by traffic and advertisement dollars. Newspapers don't make money off of subscriptions, it always the ad dollars that count.

    Anyone have a guess as to what the rational is?

    I don't.

    Rolf

    ---
    Dreams Trump Video
    Why Limit Linking?
    Authored by: Lise on Thursday, July 02 2009 @ 01:42 PM GMT+5
    Newspapers used to be funded on an advertising model including and especially, classified advertising. Craig's List has cut way into the classified business for newspapers because people like listing their sale items for free and to a national, not local audience. And then there's the declining readership of print newspapers generally. So what newspapers seem to be saying is that the advertising model is not sufficient to support their operations, and for that reason they need some other source of revenue to pay for it.

    One industry idea is to simply close off their web sites to all but paying customers. I believe MediaNews, among others, is experimenting with this idea.

    Another idea (which does seem less than fully thought out) is the one presented above, in which anyone whose web site carries advertising would be required to get permission and/or pay to link, quote from or paraphrase a news article.

    I'm going to posit another theory as to why newspapers are having trouble -- they got too far into capitalism. I remember being surprised when newspapers and newspaper chains started being traded on the stock market. Later, looking at some of the bigger outfits, it seemed as if they were almost too big for a local market to sustain. So right now, I think part of the problem is that the chickens unleashed by too much growth are coming home to roost. Just a theory.

    Should Linking To Newspapers Be Allowed?
    Authored by: pjmelton on Thursday, July 02 2009 @ 01:38 PM GMT+5
    Newspaper owners in general have never understood the web, and so they view it as the enemy. The Internet is common space - as they well know, since they are always complaining about bloggers "stealing" their stories without attribution when it far more often goes the other direction.

    If they don't want people to link to their articles, they should not have them online. This is like donating your book to a library and then forbidding the library from loaning it out.

    ---
    "Economic laws are not made by nature. They are made by human beings." -- FDR
    Should Linking To Newspapers Be Allowed?
    Authored by: cgrotke on Friday, July 03 2009 @ 07:27 AM GMT+5
    It is also easy to turn off search engines. A "no robots" tag will keep
    Google and others away if that is a desire.
    Pros and Cons
    Authored by: Floyd on Monday, July 06 2009 @ 03:51 PM GMT+5

    There are differing theories about how newspapers can make money as well as how they should share or distribute their stories. Ultimately the marketplace will decide.

    If I see a headline that interests me, I'll click on it and read the first few sentences. At that point they either have me interested or I move on to the next link that looks promising. If I stick around then they have my eyes and my interest potentially for the next 30 seconds to 5 minutes depending on the length of the article and whatever bells and whistles they have included such as video, audio, illustrations, graphs etc. In the meantime, they may have ads that I am casually aware of and if it is for something interesting that I might be able to enjoy then perhaps I even click on it.

    On the other hand, if I click on a link and it says something along the lines of "please register or "please watch this ad", they have probably lost me before I ever got to their site. Too bad for them AND me I guess. I didn't get to see their news story and they lost a news reader and a potential ad reader as well.

    Many news outlets helpfully place links on their pages so it is easy to share them with friends via social networking sites and such. On Facebook, folks see the headline and the first sentence or 2 of the article as well as a photo or graphic so they too can decide if they want to read the story or not.


    I'm a big fan of this news browser friendly approach to info sharing. I know that it doesn't solve the problem of how to generate enough revenue that all of these outlets can continue to function as they have, but there are models that must be working. The BBC has a fantastic content rich, multimedia site that has great writing as well as video, audio, graphs, charts, photos-you name it. The BBC receives funding from the British government so taxpayers pay for it.




    Wake up and smell the linkage
    Authored by: KeithG on Thursday, July 02 2009 @ 11:06 AM GMT+5
    It's that sort of short-sided thinking that helped dig the hole the newspaper industry now finds itself in!!

    Instead of broadening the means by which people on the web might find their way to the source of an article
    they want to stifle it by setting in place a maze of practices a blogger would have to abide by before a link can
    be posted. I could understand it if the newspapers' concern had to do with plagiarism of content but I should
    think that links to an article would only prove beneficial to both the writer and the publication.
    The more eyes they can attract to their site the better.

    Should Linking To Newspapers Be Allowed?
    Authored by: TomBuch on Thursday, July 02 2009 @ 01:22 PM GMT+5
    The free exchange of ideas is essential to the survival of our democracy. And, at the same time, creators (or owners) of intellectual property should be able to protect their rights, and have those rights respected.

    My feeling is that a link to a public site is fine, but a link to a password protected or pay site is not. Quotations of material from free/unprotected sites should be allowed without restriction, while quotes from password protected or pay sites should be limited to "fair use," which is only that necessary to establish the argument or background from which new content will spring. In this case, the new content should be substantially greater than the quoted material, and the quoted material should be necessary as a basis of the new "fair use."

    It's an evolving market, with evolving technology, but it shouldn't be that tough to figure out.

    The New Yorker just ran a interesting review by Malcom Gladwell of a book by Chris Anderson, who is an editor of Wired Magazine (Free: The Future of a Radical Price). The article does a terrific job of defining the issue of IP value. It's well worth reading, and is available on the New Yorker's open site at: http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2009/07/06/090706crbo_books_gladwell.

    As long as we are on the subject, take note of how Mr. Gladwell quotes from the book, and how he uses the ideas in the book to define an alternate thesis. This is the way "fair use" works with quoted material in the print word, and makes a good basis for how it should work in the digital world.
    Should Linking To Newspapers Be Allowed?
    Authored by: cgrotke on Thursday, July 02 2009 @ 01:44 PM GMT+5
    If we adopt a no-linking policy, we would have to delete this
    comment, unless you could prove that you had the New Yorker's
    permission to mention them.

    : )

    Note that the blogging judge Lise quotes says that even "paraphrasing
    copyrighted materials without the copyright holder's consent," not just
    linking, might need to be barred.

    It seems like people here are saying that a no-linking policy would be
    bad for the newspapers, but many newspapers are serious about
    stopping it.

    Our question is - should we be proactive and do as they say they
    wish? No links without their permission? How would it impact those of
    you who like to point to articles written by others?
    Should Linking To Newspapers Be Allowed?
    Authored by: pjmelton on Thursday, July 02 2009 @ 02:43 PM GMT+5
    I think the newspapers should be careful what they wish for. If they want us to stop showing their articles to other people, they are missing out on the most basic form of marketing - word of mouth (or, in this case, word of link). This a backasswards way of going about things. You have a sucky business model, then fix the sucky business model. Instead they are choking to death raging against the machine.

    ---
    "Economic laws are not made by nature. They are made by human beings." -- FDR
    Should Linking To Newspapers Be Allowed?
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Thursday, July 02 2009 @ 04:38 PM GMT+5
    I don't know about paying to link, but I do know that the demise of newspapers is overblown and overhyped.
    Large papers and newspaper conglomerates are losing readers and advertisers. Small newspapers, on the other hand, are gaining readers and holding their own on advertising as well. I have my own theories about where print journalism is going and why, but since this is a thread on linking, I'll just add these:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/07/AR2007030702408.html
    If there's any good news about the businesses of newspapering these days, it can be found at the industry's littlest papers, which are doing well even as their bigger brothers founder.
    The average daily circulation of all U.S. newspapers has declined since 1987. The smallest papers, however -- community weeklies and dailies with circulation of less than 50,000 -- have been a bright spot in a darkened industry. As the Internet dramatically transforms the largest papers in the business -- siphoning classified advertising and commoditizing national news -- many small papers are weathering the decline with relative ease, and some are even prospering.

    http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2009/04/28/small-town-newspapers-attract-investors/
    The Wall Street Journal reports (subscription required) [irony alert] that "Advertising revenue fell just 3.6% last year for dailies with circulations under 100,000, compared to a nearly 17% decline for the industry overall, according to trade groups."

    ---
    We Rock!

    Should Linking To Newspapers Be Allowed?
    Authored by: cgrotke on Friday, July 03 2009 @ 07:40 AM GMT+5
    Would you have written this if we required you to get permission for
    those links? What if, as the judge suggests, you could not even
    summarize what you read elsewhere on this site?

    I find the no-linking attitude to be backward, but big news execs have
    said it so much that I can only assume they are serious.

    Shall we require permission be granted for any links to major news
    stories?

    Will newspapers hire someone to handle the requests in a timely,
    news-worthy manner?
    Should Linking To Newspapers Be Allowed?
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Friday, July 03 2009 @ 05:17 PM GMT+5
    I think if big news organizations try to ban links and fair use, their newspapers will become irrelevant.

    The real problem I have with the whole idea is that it inhibits the free exchange of ideas and information, which is the purpose of the editorial content of newspapers.

    ---
    We Rock!
    Should Linking To Newspapers Be Allowed?
    Authored by: JeffPotter on Friday, July 03 2009 @ 03:14 AM GMT+5
    Speaking as someone representing a newspaper: the thought of changing copyright laws to prohibit fair use -- a fundamental premise of copyright law -- is stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. Stupid.

    Lise and Chris: freedom of speech, tempered with your gentle calls for civility, requires context. If what we do with newspapers is at all valuable, it will be a necessary and valuable context to the lively and productive discussion that takes place here.

    I appreciate your even posing the question, but this newspaper stands for the status quo. Rock on.

    Jeff Potter
    Editor, The Commons
    Should Linking To Newspapers Be Allowed?
    Authored by: Lise on Friday, July 03 2009 @ 07:50 AM GMT+5
    After having thought about this question and the larger issue of the role of the news media, it seems to me that there's something fundamentally wrong with the idea of trying to limit public access to news. It's not just that information wants to be free and will be free whether or not newspapers cooperate. For me, it's almost a matter of ethics. Newspapers are important distributors of information in a free society. News media — the Press — are upheld as one of the pillars of democracy. With that status comes responsibility.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't make money (which they do, the old- fashioined way, through advertising). I can even see their beef with news aggreggators the bulk of whose content is other publications' headlines and text. But I think a blanket proposal like "no linking to news content" is not what's called for, and would have much more far-reaching effects than they imagine.

    I guess the other issue is reality. People will get the information they want and need, one way or another. If the newspapers block themselves off, then people will go to other sources. Bloggers will evolve and do more reporting themselves. Television news sites will get more popular. Citizen journalism will flourish esp on the local level. And independent newspapers that don't lmiit access will get stronger. That's my prediction, anyway.

    It's ironic to me that just weeks after the discussions on linking, the Washington Post announced (and then scuttled, thankfully) a plan to charge corporations money for access to its news staff and Washington insiders. Once again, it just seemed like the shoe was on the wrong foot. When media get cozy with the high-placed people they cover, the public suffers. They're supposed to be on our side, asking the tough questions that we would ask, not pandering to power and big bucks.

    I agree with everyone who says that professional journalism is important. I also think citizen journalism is important and have said for years that the two can co-exist and even thrive on the synergy. But newspapers need to get back to their roots and remember who they serve. I think if that were to happen, they would find that the respect and support would be there. But right now, there's an imbalance in the industry that goes way beyond CraigsList and bloggers.

    Should Linking To Newspapers Be Allowed?
    Authored by: George Tirebiter on Monday, July 06 2009 @ 12:02 PM GMT+5
    Good article on FAIR's website on newspapers and their struggles to make profits. It seems to debunk the myth that print journalism is dying. The major reason newspapers are losing money is that they have appeared to overextend themselves:

    "As Morton and others have pointed out (e.g., the Washington Post’s Walter Pincus—Columbia Journalism Review, 5­–6/09), some of the most dramatic stories involve big-city papers whose parent companies have overextended themselves, saddled with the debts from their new owners’ takeovers or purchases of other properties at inflated prices. When real-estate mogul Sam Zell purchased the Tribune Co. in December 2007, for example, he gave the already-indebted media chain an additional $8 billion in fresh IOUs (Business Week, 7/30/08)."

    http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=3826

    They need to downsize and fast, and get back to being local.

    ---
    "Oh, was it a joke, you mean?"
    - John Cage

    And an example...
    Authored by: cgrotke on Monday, July 06 2009 @ 01:05 PM GMT+5
    The Chicago Tribune is reported to have found a buyer for the Chicago
    Cubs and Wrigley Field today.
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