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    Facts About Healthcare Reform    
    Friday, August 14 2009 @ 01:41 PM GMT+4
    Contributed by: Anonymous

    HealthFrom a memo by David Axelrod.

    "8 ways reform provides security and stability to those with or without coverage:

    Ends Discrimination for Pre-Existing Conditions: Insurance companies will be prohibited from refusing you coverage because of your medical history.

    Ends Exorbitant Out-of-Pocket Expenses, Deductibles or Co-Pays: Insurance companies will have to abide by yearly caps on how much they can charge for out-of-pocket expenses.


    Ends Cost-Sharing for Preventive Care: Insurance companies must fully cover, without charge, regular checkups and tests that help you prevent illness, such as mammograms or eye and foot exams for diabetics.

    Ends Dropping of Coverage for Seriously Ill: Insurance companies will be prohibited from dropping or watering down insurance coverage for those who become seriously ill.
    Ends Gender Discrimination: Insurance companies will be prohibited from charging you more because of your gender.

    Ends Annual or Lifetime Caps on Coverage: Insurance companies will be prevented from placing annual or lifetime caps on the coverage you receive.

    Extends Coverage for Young Adults: Children would continue to be eligible for family coverage through the age of 26.

    Guarantees Insurance Renewal: Insurance companies will be required to renew any policy as long as the policyholder pays their premium in full. Insurance companies won't be allowed to refuse renewal because someone became sick.
    Learn more and get details: http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/health-insurance-consumer-protections/

    8 common myths about health insurance reform:

    Reform will stop "rationing" - not increase it: It’s a myth that reform will mean a "government takeover" of health care or lead to "rationing." To the contrary, reform will forbid many forms of rationing that are currently being used by insurance companies.
    We can’t afford reform: It's the status quo we can't afford. It’s a myth that reform will bust the budget. To the contrary, the President has identified ways to pay for the vast majority of the up-front costs by cutting waste, fraud, and abuse within existing government health programs; ending big subsidies to insurance companies; and increasing efficiency with such steps as coordinating care and streamlining paperwork. In the long term, reform can help bring down costs that will otherwise lead to a fiscal crisis.
    Reform would encourage "euthanasia": It does not.
    It’s a malicious myth that reform would encourage or even require euthanasia for seniors. For seniors who want to consult with their family and physicians about end-of life decisions, reform will help to cover these voluntary, private consultations for those who want help with these personal and difficult family decisions.

    Vets' health care is safe and sound: It’s a myth that health insurance reform will affect veterans' access to the care they get now. To the contrary, the President's budget significantly expands coverage under the VA, extending care to 500,000 more veterans who were previously excluded. The VA Healthcare system will continue to be available for all eligible veterans.
    Reform will benefit small business - not burden it: It’s a myth that health insurance reform will hurt small businesses. To the contrary, reform will ease the burdens on small businesses, provide tax credits to help them pay for employee coverage and help level the playing field with big firms who pay much less to cover their employees on average.

    Your Medicare is safe, and stronger with reform: It’s myth that Health Insurance Reform would be financed by cutting Medicare benefits. To the contrary, reform will improve the long-term financial health of Medicare, ensure better coordination, eliminate waste and unnecessary subsidies to insurance companies, and help to close the Medicare "doughnut" hole to make prescription drugs more affordable for seniors.

    You can keep your own insurance: It’s myth that reform will force you out of your current insurance plan or force you to change doctors. To the contrary, reform will expand your choices, not eliminate them.

    No, government will not do anything with your bank account: It is an absurd myth that government will be in charge of your bank accounts. Health insurance reform will simplify administration, making it easier and more convenient for you to pay bills in a method that you choose. Just like paying a phone bill or a utility bill, you can pay by traditional check, or by a direct electronic payment. And forms will be standardized so they will be easier to understand. The choice is up to you – and the same rules of privacy will apply as they do for all other electronic payments that people make.
    Learn more and get details:
    http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/realitycheck
    http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/realitycheck/faq

    8 Reasons We Need Health Insurance Reform Now

    Coverage Denied to Millions: A recent national survey estimated that 12.6 million non-elderly adults – 36 percent of those who tried to purchase health insurance directly from an insurance company in the individual insurance market – were in fact discriminated against because of a pre-existing condition in the previous three years or dropped from coverage when they became seriously ill.
    Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/denied_coverage/index.html

    Less Care for More Costs: With each passing year, Americans are paying more for health care coverage. Employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have nearly doubled since 2000, a rate three times faster than wages. In 2008, the average premium for a family plan purchased through an employer was $12,680, nearly the annual earnings of a full-time minimum wage job. Americans pay more than ever for health insurance, but get less coverage.
    Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/hiddencosts/index.html

    Roadblocks to Care for Women: Women’s reproductive health requires more regular contact with health care providers, including yearly pap smears, mammograms, and obstetric care. Women are also more likely to report fair or poor health than men (9.5% versus 9.0%). While rates of chronic conditions such as diabetes and high blood pressure are similar to men, women are twice as likely to suffer from headaches and are more likely to experience joint, back or neck pain. These chronic conditions often require regular and frequent treatment and follow-up care.
    Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/women/index.html

    Hard Times in the Heartland: Throughout rural America, there are nearly 50 million people who face challenges in accessing health care. The past several decades have consistently shown higher rates of poverty, mortality, uninsurance, and limited access to a primary health care provider in rural areas. With the recent economic downturn, there is potential for an increase in many of the health disparities and access concerns that are already elevated in rural communities.
    Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/hardtimes

    Small Businesses Struggle to Provide Health Coverage: Nearly one-third of the uninsured – 13 million people – are employees of firms with less than 100 workers. From 2000 to 2007, the proportion of non-elderly Americans covered by employer-based health insurance fell from 66% to 61%. Much of this decline stems from small business. The percentage of small businesses offering coverage dropped from 68% to 59%, while large firms held stable at 99%. About a third of such workers in firms with fewer than 50 employees obtain insurance through a spouse.
    Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/helpbottomline

    The Tragedies are Personal: Half of all personal bankruptcies are at least partly the result of medical expenses. The typical elderly couple may have to save nearly $300,000 to pay for health costs not covered by Medicare alone. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/inaction

    Diminishing Access to Care: From 2000 to 2007, the proportion of non-elderly Americans covered by employer-based health insurance fell from 66% to 61%. An estimated 87 million people - one in every three Americans under the age of 65 - were uninsured at some point in 2007 and 2008. More than 80% of the uninsured are in working families. Learn more: http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/inaction/diminishing/index.html

    The Trends are Troubling: Without reform, health care costs will continue to skyrocket unabated, putting unbearable strain on families, businesses, and state and federal government budgets. Perhaps the most visible sign of the need for health care reform is the 46 million Americans currently without health insurance - projections suggest that this number will rise to about 72 million in 2040 in the absence of reform.

    Learn more: http://www.WhiteHouse.gov/assets/documents/CEA_Health_Care_Report.pdf "

     

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  • Facts About Healthcare Reform | 76 comments | Create New Account
    The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they may say.
    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: babalu on Friday, August 14 2009 @ 06:27 PM GMT+4
    Nice to have it spelled out directly as it is here - I'm so tired of all the MISinformation, truth stretching and truth twisting lately - not the least of which is Palin again. - I've recently read that Palin was ringing another of her misinformed bells saying that the proposed health care overhaul will create "death panels". I haven't gone to read what she has on her facebook site, but she's reported to be blathering on and on; "concerning death panels".
    Seems they want the older folks to believe that we'll all be put to death rather than given medical care, should any medical need arise.
    Completely irresponsible nonsense - there ought to be a law against this type of truth-twisting and those who perpetuate need to be held accountable.
    More Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: mr.mike on Saturday, August 15 2009 @ 12:54 AM GMT+4
    These FACTS are taken from an article posted on the Constitution Party's website.

    The bill states that health-care benefits require "shared responsibility among workers, employers, and the government." That means the government will force all taxpayers to pay for health care for millions of people who don’t now buy insurance because they don’t need it, or because insurance doesn’t cover what they do need. (p.5)

    The bill states that the government will investigate "self-insured employers not being able to pay obligations." Government agents will audit and then harass small business owners to force them to pay for insurance they cannot afford. (p.22)

    The bill provides for optional "nurse home visitation services" without specifying who has power to exercise the option. Among the various purposes listed are "increasing birth intervals between pregnancies" (this reminds us of China’s policies to reduce childbirth by married couples), reducing "child abuse, neglect, and injury" (giving more authority to the already too powerful Child Protective Services), and promoting school readiness (will homeschooling be scorned?). (p.768)

    The bill covers family planning. Those are well-known code words for taxpayer-funded contraception and abortion, and will impose mandatory coverage of abortion on demand in all health plans. (p.772)

    The bill provides for "culturally and linguistically appropriate communication and health services," and "shall give priority to applicants that have developed partnerships with community organizations or with agencies with experience in language access." This opens up plenty of funding for health and translation services for illegal aliens. (pp.405 & 407)

    Title II of the bill creates a "Health Insurance Exchange," pretending to be a marketplace for health insurance plans. Of course, so long as the "public option" is subsidized by the taxpayers, it can always undersell private plans. (p.72)

    The government will specify the health benefits that must be included in any plan participating in the Health Insurance Exchange. If all private plans must include all government-specified benefits (which will surely include benefits unwanted by many people and will inevitably drive up costs), whatever happened to choice? (p.84)

    Anyone who does not enroll in an Exchange-participating plan will be "automatically enrolled under Medicaid." The government will thus use force to achieve its goal of universal coverage. (p.102)

    Employers will be subjected to a play-or-pay mandate. Those who do not provide health insurance to their employees must give the government a "contribution" equal to 8 percent of average wages paid. (p.149)

    Seniors must submit to "advance care planning consultation" (a.k.a. end-of-life discussions) every five years, or more often if there is "a significant change in the health condition of the individual, including diagnosis of a chronic, progressive, life-limiting disease, a life-threatening or terminal diagnosis or life-threatening injury." Will these consultants advise seniors to hurry up and die because they are costing too much money? (pp.425 & 429)

    Government bureaucrats will conduct "Comparative Effectiveness Research" to decide the effectiveness of treatments and drugs. That is the exotic label for rationing and, as House Appropriations Chairman David Obey (D-WI) admitted, drugs and treatments that are "found to be less effective and more expensive will no longer be prescribed." (pp.502 & 520)

    Government bureaucrats (not the medical profession) shall determine national priorities for research. (p.505)

    Preference in awarding grants or contracts will be given to entities that have trained "the greatest percentage" of public health workers in the government, and that have trained large percentages of "under-represented minority groups." (pp.909-910) Think ACORN! The Senate bill’s official summary also authorizes "home visits" to "improve immunization coverage." Will Americans tolerate a knock on the door from a government agent demanding that we and our children receive all government-ordered vaccines?

    I want to keep the insurance I have. I don't want to lose it because of a government takeover of the healthcare system. I'm working everyday and trying to keep myself healthy to avoid dr's visits. Have I had issues beyond my control? Certainly. But I want the option to make my own decisions regarding my medical care. Not the government

    ---
    Want to see how bad the U.S. will be in a few years?

    Look at Vermont.
    More Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: annikee on Saturday, August 15 2009 @ 01:23 PM GMT+4
    Fear, fear, fear.
    "...Those are well-known code words for taxpayer-funded contraception and abortion, and will impose mandatory coverage of abortion on demand in all health plans. (p.772)"
    And what's wrong with that?

    This is all from the Lewin Group, a bunch of highly-paid market consultants. They have years of experience in helping the insurance industry. What would you expect them to do? They are helping their clients maintain portfolios, thereby greening their pockets. Sorry, highly-paid, profit-driven public relations people aren't on the side of the working stiff. It's the working stiff's money that makes them rich, and they count on the gullibility of the masses to keep them rich. Do some research on them. They aren't looking out for the common people. They advise insurance companies. That should be a red flag to anyone with a brain who cares about their family.




    ---
    Freedom and fear are natural enemies.

    Believing gossip is worse than spreading it.
    Social anything is EVIL!
    Authored by: Todd on Monday, August 17 2009 @ 08:27 PM GMT+4
    This hippie Marxist stuff is getting old! As citizens of a free Republic we should be forced to pay into NO systems for shared benefit. It should all be free and open market choice!

    -- Highways
    -- Fire and police
    -- Air Traffic Control
    -- Military Defense

    And every other such thing! It being paid for by our taxes, against our will? Pure socialism!

    And, for that matter -- not only is it dark socialism to be forced to pay into a shared health-solution -- it also means we citizens should get refunded every dime of the Billions of $ of tax payer dollars which, through groups like the National Institute of Health and stuff, have helped come up with many of the medical solutions that should now only be available through private providers. The government owes us all LOTS of money for all that cancer research, antibiotics, genetics findings and etc!

    Here is a current breakdown of all the 2009 Federal Budget, where all of your tax dollars you are forced to pay are used (i.e. All socialized programs)

    Current Military budget is $965 billion:
    • Military Personnel $129 billion
    • Operation & Maint. $241 billion
    • Procurement $143 billion
    • Research & Dev. $79 billion
    • Construction $15 billion
    • Family Housing $3 billion
    • DoD misc. $4 billion
    • Retired Pay $70 billion
    • DoE nuclear weapons $17 billion
    • NASA (50%) $9 billion
    • International Security $9 billion
    • Homeland Secur. (military) $35 billion
    • State Dept. (partial) $6 billion
    • other military (non-DoD) $5 billion
    • “Global War on Terror” $200 billion

    Past/catchup - Military spending, $484 billion:
    • Veterans’ Benefits $94 billion
    • Interest on national debt (80%) created by military spending, $390 billion

    Human Resources - $789 billion:
    • Health/Human Services
    • Soc. Sec. Administration
    • Education Dept.
    • Food/Nutrition programs
    • Housing & Urban Dev.
    • Labor Dept.
    • other human resources.

    General Government - $304 billion:
    • Interest on debt (20%)
    • Treasury
    • Government personnel
    • Justice Dept.
    • State Dept.
    • Homeland Security (15%)
    • International Affairs
    • NASA (50%)
    • Judicial
    • Legislative
    • other general govt.

    Physical Resources - $117 billion:
    • Agriculture
    • Interior
    • Transportation
    • Homeland Security (15%)
    • HUD
    • Commerce
    • Energy (non-military)
    • Environmental Protection
    • Nat. Science Fdtn.
    • Army Corps Engineers
    � Fed. Comm. Commission
    • other physical resources

    Socialism everywhere!

    Ok, I'll put down my cup of Satire tea now. Facts and logic, and especially *compassion* seems to fall on deaf ears in this debate. And unfortunately, I think these folks overall are starting to be ITCHING for an excuse to use actual violence against their fellow Americans at this point. Its starting to get that feel to it.

    -----------------------------------

    "A liberal is a person who believes that water can be made to run uphill. A conservative is someone who believes everybody should pay for his water. I'm somewhere in between: I believe water should be free, but that water flows downhill." - -Theodore White

    Social anything is EVIL!
    Authored by: SJM on Monday, August 17 2009 @ 08:40 PM GMT+4
    Just a question, where does the other 50% of funding for NASA come from?
    I can only assume overseas based on all the joint ventures the US, Russia, Japan, European Space Agency, etc. conduct together.
    Social anything is EVIL!
    Authored by: mr.mike on Tuesday, August 18 2009 @ 12:09 PM GMT+4
    "And unfortunately, I think these folks overall are starting to be ITCHING for an excuse to use actual violence against their fellow Americans at this point. Its starting to get that feel to it."

    Would you be referring to this?


    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090817/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_protesters_guns

    I wouldn't be fearful. I'm sure the colonists carried guns during revolutionary times. I bet even Thomas Jefferson had one. ;)

    ---
    Want to see how bad the U.S. will be in a few years?

    Look at Vermont.

    Social anything is EVIL!
    Authored by: mr.mike on Wednesday, August 19 2009 @ 11:50 PM GMT+4
    Wow. No response? That's unusual.

    ---
    Want to see how bad the U.S. will be in a few years?

    Look at Vermont.
    Social anything is EVIL!
    Authored by: Todd on Thursday, August 20 2009 @ 04:10 AM GMT+4
    >>Wow. No response? That's unusual.<<

    Heh! So not getting a response within less than 24 hours is unusual?! Glad I happened across your reply then this time, if I HADN'T replied to your reply, or at least quickly enough, it would have *proven* I was intimidated by the brilliance of your reasoning. Right? <g>

    Well, <sigh> ok: first I'll reply to your reply --

    Yes I heard last night of the gun thing at the rally, but I think my comment predates that specific rally that got all the recent press. If not, it certainly predates my knowledge of that event.

    OOOHHHHH - I just did something you should look up, its called "Fact Checking" My Comment to which you refer was posted: Monday, August 17 2009 @ 05:27 PM GMT+4 And if you look back at when the press coverage of all the big recent stuff was, you'll see . . . .

    Anyways, try to peek outside the 24hr news cycle box, and realize that there are also larger waves and trends within any system/culture. And some of us try to not just look at the the last few days/weeks/months, but have CONTEXT. Look back in my posts if you wish, you'll see I've mentioned this trend long before FOX showed you any footage of citizens with guns at presidential events. But yep, this event does fit the trend. And that's the thing about patterns/trends, we are quite likely to see this issue continue growing.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    But, hey! Speaking of "Wow, no response" -- you once again picked out a tiny part of my main post to try and hit at. Ignoring the big issue.

    Mr. Mike, do you believe we should have any socialized services in our Government?



    ---------------------------
    Annoy a righty - think for yourself.
    Social anything is EVIL!
    Authored by: mr.mike on Friday, August 21 2009 @ 01:00 AM GMT+4
    No I do not. Nothing that is unconstitutional anyway. The only exception would be the DOT since that oversees infrastructure which benefits the commerce between states.

    ---
    Want to see how bad the U.S. will be in a few years?

    Look at Vermont.
    Social anything is GREAT!
    Authored by: annikee on Wednesday, August 26 2009 @ 03:27 PM GMT+4
    How would you interpret "promoting the general welfare" without anything done as a society? Not much that's more Constitutional than promoting the general welfare....

    ---
    Freedom and fear are natural enemies.

    Believing gossip is worse than spreading it.
    Socialized American Schools
    Authored by: Todd on Thursday, August 20 2009 @ 05:01 PM GMT+4
    A wonderful cartoon:

    http://www.cartoonistgroup.com/store/add.php?iid=37588
    Socialized American Schools
    Authored by: mr.mike on Friday, August 21 2009 @ 01:03 AM GMT+4
    Yeah exactly even the Dept of Education should be gone. You of all people must agree with that.

    ---
    Want to see how bad the U.S. will be in a few years?

    Look at Vermont.
    Socialized American Schools
    Authored by: pjmelton on Friday, August 21 2009 @ 09:39 AM GMT+4
    Classy as always, Mike! Most homeschoolers want better public schools, not their demolition. Believe me, if all kids could get what they needed from the system, we would all use it.

    ---
    "Economic laws are not made by nature. They are made by human beings." -- FDR
    Socialized American Schools
    Authored by: mr.mike on Sunday, August 23 2009 @ 10:19 AM GMT+4
    You missed the point as always Paula, Most constitutionalists know the difference between demolishing a building and demolitshing the NEA and Dept of Ed.

    Just as homeschoolers want to make the decision what to teach in their homes. I don't want beaurocrats making decisions from Washington about my school.

    ---
    Want to see how bad the U.S. will be in a few years?

    Look at Vermont.
    Socialized American Schools
    Authored by: pjmelton on Sunday, August 23 2009 @ 12:39 PM GMT+4
    "Most constitutionalists know the difference between demolishing a building and demolitshing the NEA and Dept of Ed. "

    Likewise, most humans know the difference between a metaphor and a literal statement.

    ---
    "Economic laws are not made by nature. They are made by human beings." -- FDR
    More Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: SJD on Friday, August 21 2009 @ 09:25 PM GMT+4
    They can’t run the “cash for clunkers” program, but they want you to trust them with your health care? You’re kidding, right? Many dealers have stopped accepting clunkers because they haven’t been paid by the government! Democrat Congressman Joe Sestak says most of the forms Team Obama has received asking for reimbursement have been rejected on minor paperwork problems. Some dealers wonder if they will ever get paid!

    ---
    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life
    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: SJD on Saturday, August 15 2009 @ 03:23 AM GMT+4
    President Obama told the American people in last weekend's address he wanted to "start dispelling the outlandish rumors" about the Democrats' risky health care experiment.

    I couldn't agree more with the President.

    There is no place for outlandish rumor or outrageous rhetoric in the debate for the affordable and accessible health care reform we all want.

    Below are some facts that will help you counter the dishonest rhetoric Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and liberal special interest groups are disseminating in their attempt to silence dissent:

    Rhetoric: President Obama Promises Americans Can Keep Their Current Health Care Coverage. "You know, the interesting thing is we've actually been very clear on what we want. I've said I want to make sure if you have health care you are going to keep it..." (PBS's "The Newshour With Jim Lehrer," 7/20/09)

    ..... FACT: Analysis Shows Over 88 Million People To Lose Current Insurance Under Government Health Care Takeover. "Under current law, there will be about 158.1 million people who are covered under an employer plan as workers, dependents or early retirees in 2011. If the act were fully implemented in that year, about 88.1 million workers would shift from private employer insurance to the public plan." (John Shelis, Vice President, Lewin Group, "Analysis Of The July 15 Draft Of The American Affordable Health Choices Act Of 2009," 7/17/09)

    Rhetoric: President Obama Pledges Americans Can Keep Their Doctor. "If you like your plan and you like your doctor, you won't have to do a thing. You keep your plan. You keep your doctor...We're not going to mess with it." (President Barack Obama, Remarks At White House Press Conference, The White House, 6/23/09)

    ..... FACT: Mayo Clinic Says Government-Run Health Care Will Force Doctors To Drop Patients. '[L]awmakers are on track to approve across-the-board federal payment reductions of $155 billion over 10 years for hospitals ... Mayo and similar health systems object to the sweeping cuts. 'Across-the-board cuts will be harmful to everyone and we think it is particularly bad to penalize the high-value organizations,' said Jeff Korsmo, executive director of the Mayo Clinic Health Policy Center. 'We will have to violate our values in order to stay in business and reduce our access to government patients.'" (Phil Galewitz, "'Model' Health Systems Press Case For Medicare Fix In Reform," Kaiser Health News, 7/20/09)

    Rhetoric: President Obama Promises No Additional Taxes On Middle Class. "What I've said is, and I have stuck to this point, I don't want to see additional tax burdens on people making $250,000 a year or less." (NBC's "Today Show," 7/21/09)

    ..... FACT: Democrats' Plan Imposes 2.5% Tax On Uninsured Individuals. "The penalty assessed on people who would be subject to the mandate but did not obtain insurance would equal 2.5 percent of the difference between their adjusted gross income (modified to include tax-exempt interest and certain other sources of income) and the tax filing threshold ..." (Douglas W. Elmendorf, "Preliminary Analysis Of The Insurance Coverage Specifications Provided By The House Tri-Committee Group," Letter To Chairman Rangel, 7/17/09)

    The Republicans want an honest and open debate about how to reform health care, but it is the Democrats who do not want to have a legitimate discussion on the issues. Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and their liberal special interest cronies are resorting to calling concerned citizens who have questions about their health care schemes "astroturf," "un-American," and even "political terrorists."

    One White House aide went so far to say "if you get hit, we will punch back
    twice as hard" when coaching Senate Democrats on the ways of "Chicago land politics."

    It's time for the President to practice what he preached on the campaign trail and respect all voices in the health care debate.



    ---
    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life
    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: annikee on Saturday, August 15 2009 @ 12:53 PM GMT+4
    Projections (such as "will", "would", "may") are not fact. That is opinion, NOT FACT. Repeat, opinion does not mean fact. Don't pawn off opinion as fact.

    ---
    Freedom and fear are natural enemies.

    Believing gossip is worse than spreading it.
    Fax About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Sunday, August 16 2009 @ 01:10 PM GMT+4
    ***FACT: Analysis Shows Over 88 Million People To Lose Current Insurance Under Government Health Care Takeover.***

    Hah hahaha! What kind of knothead thinks "analysis" from the health care insurance industry - the Lewin Group - is a "fact?"

    These are the very people who have handed us the problem we have now: Expensive health care and even more expensive health care insurance. Don't like "death panels?" Well it's the profit-driven insurance companies who decide what care we're "eligible" for now. Don't like rationing? Well guess who rations care now? Insurance companies! Nameless, faceless, insurance bureaucrats.

    Everything the right fears about "gummint takeover" of health care (which is not what the government option really is) is what we already have under the current private health care monopoly - only it's controlled by an industry that doesn't answer to us, and looks only as far ahead as the next quarter's profit.

    I'm not sure if conservatives are hypocrites or idiots.

    This is the disaster of ideology left to us by Ronald "government is the problem" Reagan, and his program of redistributing our wealth to businesses. Despite all evidence to the contrary, people actually believe that a profit-driven corporation can more efficiently deliver a service we all need than the government can.

    We're suffering from so many of the consequences of Reagan's belief-based ideology.

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    We Rock!
    Fax About Health-care Reform
    Authored by: SJD on Monday, August 17 2009 @ 04:05 AM GMT+4
    Perhaps you need to to go back and review your economics 101 book. It seems you may have taken Marxism 101 instead.

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    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life
    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, August 15 2009 @ 10:54 AM GMT+4

    I don’t have a problem with Axlerod’s 8 point reform for health insurance companies (HIC’s). If all the HIC’s were mandated to adhere to these reforms which includes universal coverage such as we have here in VT, and if they were allowed to compete nationally, in all or any states they choose to, wouldn’t that lower costs by increasing competition?

    Before VT went universal, I had a very nice private plan at a reasonable cost. At that time you had many competing HIC’s operating in VT. When the universal rules kicked, all but two of the major HIC’s left the state and Vermont resident’s health insurance costs started a rapid rise to what are now obscene levels for private health insurance coverage. We need more competition in Vermont.

    It’s the public option that worries me the most. If the Mayo Clinic can pick and choose who they serve, and likely would reduce or eliminate service to people in the public option plan, would other clinics and doctors be able to do the same? My daughter enrolled in the Catamount plan a couple of years ago. She had always enjoyed service from our family doctor, but when she updated the doctor’s office with her new plan, she was told she’d have to find a new doctor. Her family doctor for the last 15 years does not work with the Catamount program. It’s all about the money and who pays more.

    It seems to me that if we level the playing field for the HIC’s, require them to stop screwing their customers, and allow competition to flourish, we’d see rates drop. I also think there has to be another way to get everyone covered who wants to be covered without the FED’s getting into the health insurance business. They (we) have too much on our plates as it is.

    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, August 15 2009 @ 11:00 AM GMT+4
    When I say our rates would drop, I'm referring to our rates in Vermont. Health insurance rates in states that currently do not mandate universal coverage would likely increase.

    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: mr.mike on Sunday, August 16 2009 @ 12:53 AM GMT+4
    I think this goes along with your opinion Alan. And it's from a doctor.

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    Want to see how bad the U.S. will be in a few years?

    Look at Vermont.
    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Monday, August 17 2009 @ 02:12 PM GMT+4
    ***It’s all about the money and who pays more.***
    Yes, I think you nailed it.


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    We Rock!
    Bull About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: xteeth on Friday, August 21 2009 @ 10:34 AM GMT+4
    Some more of those lies, this time about doctors. Almost as many doctors are in favor of Medicare for all as are members of the public. (Just under seventy percent) Just look what the Union Leader in New Hampshire published:

    http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Thomas+Clairmont%3a+Medicare-for-all+option+would+cover+everyone%2c+reduce+costs&articleId=f5d7482a-0000-4e2e-b508-0179b265ca68

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    "Some people cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go." Oscar Wilde

    Canada's health care system is not sustainable
    Authored by: SJD on Monday, August 17 2009 @ 03:52 AM GMT+4
    Canada's health care system is not sustainable according to the incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jbjzPEY0Y3bvRD335rGu_Z3KXoQw

    O my gosh.. how is this going to play out in the pro ObamaCare media,..

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    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life

    a modest proposal
    Authored by: tiny on Monday, August 17 2009 @ 01:43 PM GMT+4
    Here's a proposal from Regina Herzlinger regarding the health care issue.

    http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/miarticle.htm?id=5194

    sure, I know who and where it is came from, but read it first, before you rip her.
    a modest distortion
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Monday, August 17 2009 @ 09:04 PM GMT+4
    Wow, sounds like the right's wet dream. Free business from providing health care coverage, and let people buy their own coverage cheap, cheap, cheap on the "freemaket," just like they do in Switzerland!

    ***In Switzerland, where consumers are the sole purchasers of health insurance, the majority choose to buy comprehensive policies; but competition holds Swiss insurers’ general and administrative expenses to 5 percent of revenues, as compared to 12–18 percent for ours.***

    The thing is, "competition" doesn't hold expenses to five percent of revenues, the SWISS GOVERNMENT SETS PRICING MANDATES FOR INSURANCE COMPANIES!!!

    The other thing that the author doesn't mention is that everyone in Switzerland is required by law to purchase health insurance. Good luck trying to tell the spittle spewing teabaggers that the goddamngummint is going to "force" you to buy your own health coverage.

    She also doesn't bother to mention that the Swiss have the second most expensive health care system in the world - second only to the United States.



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    We Rock!
    America's health care system is not sustainable
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Monday, August 17 2009 @ 02:09 PM GMT+4
    America's health care system isn't sustainable. In fact, it's already broken.

    If given a choice between something that works, has worked, and needs improvement so that it can continue to serve all of (Canada's) citizens, or our current system of rationing health care by limiting access to those who can afford to pay too much for it, I know which I'd choose.

    Health care simply shouldn't be a commodity that's controlled by the marketplace.

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    We Rock!
    Canada's health care system is not sustainable
    Authored by: xteeth on Friday, August 21 2009 @ 10:41 AM GMT+4
    Yes, Canadian conservatives have managed to cut into their programs just as Thatcher did in England. The Republicanic plan, as with Social Security is the so screw it up that the view of just how successfully it operated gets lost in the "death Panels" and pulling the plug on grandma, and taking my guns away, and Puerto Ricans getting $20,000 and a 7-11 franchise when they get off the boat, and gays are subverting our children and flouridation is a communist plot, and equality is an attempt to take away your rights, and slavery is part of God's law, and the Israelis have never done anything wrong, though Israeli snipers climb into steel boxes and are swung over Palesinian lands to shoot the locals at random to spread fear, and on and on. The lies stack up you know.

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    "Some people cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go." Oscar Wilde
    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: Todd on Monday, August 17 2009 @ 09:42 PM GMT+4
    James always has a bit of a hard edge to him, but also usually logic and truth on his side! He mostly talks/writes/speaks about energy issues, but here is a recent comment of his which fits with my observations in this thread regarding what I've just coined "Selective Socialism".

    --------------------------------------------------

    ". . . All we can do now is give cars away, or give US citizens free money to buy them -- which we are obviously already doing with "Cash for Clunkers" -- which is additionally hilarious in the same nation that is deeply paranoid about the government giving anybody free health care. What a nation of morons we have become."

    --- James Howard Kunstler

    Read the rest at: http://www.kunstler.com/
    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: annikee on Monday, August 17 2009 @ 11:16 PM GMT+4
    It's all academic, now. The public option has been dropped by Noballsma. So why bother? I'm concentrating on VT. Screw the rest of the country. If they're too stupid to know what's good for them, oh well. Bye-bye.

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    Freedom and fear are natural enemies.

    Believing gossip is worse than spreading it.
    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: babalu on Thursday, August 20 2009 @ 08:07 AM GMT+4
    To those who want to bash and mash the facts on health care reform, I'm with Barney Frank who recently stated to a delusional, alarmist crackpot, the following:

    “As you stand there with a picture of the president defaced to look like Hitler, and compare the effort to increase health care to the Nazis, it is a tribute to the First Amend­ment that this kind of vile, contemptible non­sense is so freely propagated. Trying to have a conversation with you would be as inter­esting as trying to argue with a dining room table. I have no interest in doing it.”

    If those opposed could somehow band together to focus on and then analyze weather forecasts, and use the same logic they've exposed here, then a forecast of "scattered showers" would result in a personal emergency, complete with the construction of tremendously bulky and expensive ark; and they would then find themselves all crammed together in big, huge boat with no place to float....
    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, August 20 2009 @ 09:54 AM GMT+4
    Barbara, I would be interest know which particular facts you think are being mashed by those opposed to Obama's version of healthcare reform.

    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: babalu on Thursday, August 20 2009 @ 10:01 AM GMT+4
    Am I to believe that you have to ask?
    There's an opening for a weather man somewhere just waiting for your application.
    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, August 20 2009 @ 02:53 PM GMT+4

    Well, well now. I don’t look down my nose at those who study and understand Meteorology, but since it appears you do, and yet you’re so willing to buy into H.R.3200 as is, to faithfully accept all the facts, predictions and scenarios put forth by our incompetent, power hungry, DC politicians in their effort to load this POS legislation on a freight train and cram it down our throats before we know what hits us, I think you owe the weathermen of the world an apology.

    Lying liars and the lies they tell
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Thursday, August 20 2009 @ 06:15 PM GMT+4
    Here's a few of the lies, ignoring the wacko rightwing Obama-nazi-socialist-conspiracy lies:

    Republican lie: The U.S. has the best health care system in the world
    Inconvenient Truth: The U.S. ranks 37th, well below all other western nations, in overall health care performance, 26th in infant mortality, according to the World Health Organization. In the U.S., the “best health care in the world” is not even available to those with average health care insurance, it is only available to an elite few who can afford to pay out-of-pocket for it.

    Republican Lie: The public option and universal health care are socialized medicine, a government takeover of health care.
    Inconvenient truth: Alas, no system of socialized medicine has been proposed in the U.S. The public option, which is one type of “universal health care,” would neither socialize the health care system or result in government ownership or management of health care. Private health care institutions would remain private, and private practitioners would remain private practitioners. The public option is, essentially, one insurance option that would be available along side private insurance options.

    Republican Lie: Insurance companies would be driven out of business under the public option.
    Inconvenient Truth: Even in countries with a publicly funded health care system, private insurers still offer supplemental coverage plans.

    Republican Lie: We can’t afford a public option, we’ll have huge deficits that will bankrupt our grandchildren.
    Inconvenient Truth: We already have the most expensive health care in the world. It is bankrupting us now. Medical costs are responsible for 60% of all bankruptcies in the U.S. Reform would reduce cost and reduce waste, and will save taxpayers money.

    Republican Lie: Obama wants to cut Medicare benefits.
    Inconvenient Truth: Obama has proposed cutting $500 billion in Medicare costs. The cuts would be achieved through cost savings attainable by reforming the health care system, and by targeting waste, fraud and inefficiency. Proponents of health care reform suggest that a lifetime of medical care could reduce elderly health care costs even further. The Democratic plan would not cut any benefits, or ration any care, to the elderly.

    Republican Lie: Health care will be rationed under HR 3200.
    Inconvenient Truth: There is nothing in HR3200 that would ration care. Health care is rationed now, buy insurance companies. Employees at insurance companies make decisions regarding who and what will be covered. Every day patients are denied payment for necessary medical procedures and treatments. Health care reform would eliminate this private system of rationing.

    Republican Lie: HR 3200 will mandate “death panels,” euthanasia, and health care rationing for seniors.
    Inconvenient Truth: There is nothing in any of the bills that provide for “death panels” or any government decision in which the value or life of a patient is weighed against cost of care. The section of the bill that prompted this hysteria, for end of life planning and counseling for patients desiring it, was introduced by a Republican senator and has since been dropped.

    Republican Lie: HR3200 includes a provision that would allow the government to access patients’ bank accounts.
    Inconvenient Truth: Republicans have, either stupidly or intentionally, misinterpreted a section of HR 3200 pertaining to electronic billing. It does not involve individual patients or their bank accounts.

    Here's where you can find out about more of the distortions being told by opponents of health care reform:

    www.healthcarereformmyths.org
    http://healthcarefactcheck.com/
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/?e=10&ref=image
    http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/economic-imperative-for-health-care-reform-charts/

    Here's the bill, so you can look for yourself and stop waiting for Faux Nooz to tell you what it says.
    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:

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    We Rock!

    Lying liars and the lies they tell
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Thursday, August 20 2009 @ 06:45 PM GMT+4
    Oh, here's another good one that directly addresses the page by page "list" that Repuglicans are circulating:
    http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/main/2009/07/deconstructing-the-right-wing-lies-health-bill.html/

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    We Rock!

    Lying liars and the lies they tell
    Authored by: SJM on Thursday, August 20 2009 @ 08:20 PM GMT+4
    Really...if you want to be taken seriously, why don't you at least quote from middle of the road websites, not far left and progressive websites...

    I'm sure if you go to the far right websites, they could take every supposed "Republican lie" up there and prove it was true using there own spin on the language in the bill...except for the "death panels" thing, that's just dumb.

    I think you could agree but it always amazes me how two opposite political sides can read or see the exact same thing and come to a completely different conclusion.

    I think it really proves that no matter what evidence is presented, if your mind is made up on something, no amount of fact checking or truth will change it.
    Lying liars and the lies they tell
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Friday, August 21 2009 @ 02:12 AM GMT+4
    What's your argument with the facts?

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    We Rock!
    Lying liars and the lies they tell
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Saturday, August 22 2009 @ 11:44 AM GMT+4
    Anyone?

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    We Rock!
    Hilter? Look twice
    Authored by: SJD on Monday, August 24 2009 @ 08:36 PM GMT+4

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    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life

    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: SJD on Thursday, August 20 2009 @ 01:26 PM GMT+4
    Firms with Obama ties profit from health

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090819/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_health_care_consultants

    Now you know the rest of the story!

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    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life

    Facts About Axelrod
    Authored by: SJD on Thursday, August 20 2009 @ 05:05 PM GMT+4
    Just a recap: … Man owns firm, AKPD, man takes government job, man sells firm and firm owes man $2 million (if firm goes bust, man out $2 mil), firm lands multi-million dollar contracts from organizations doing business with the government on a top issue for the person man works for and man is out advocating for.

    Doesn’t pass the smell test, no matter how many times it’s being run through the washing machine. You go Axelrod..


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    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life
    Factoids About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: xteeth on Friday, August 21 2009 @ 10:49 AM GMT+4
    Wouldn't want to comment about Billy Tauzin would you. This is Republicanic boilerplate. Take credit for what you have invented. The list is endless.

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    "Some people cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go." Oscar Wilde
    Factoids About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: SJD on Friday, August 21 2009 @ 04:28 PM GMT+4
    There's a lot of Billy Tauzin's out there. Yes a problem, but you have a short memory, the "yes we can" group was promised that business in DC would not be run by lobbyist/special interests..or closed door deals. Looks like BO and company isn't living up to that pledge.. the amount of interaction with lobbyist hasn't slowed much. -Play with fire you get burned... I doubt many will forget, their just taking notes.

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    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life
    Factoids About Honest government
    Authored by: xteeth on Friday, August 21 2009 @ 08:24 PM GMT+4
    And God knows they had eight years of real experts to show them how. Just consider: Cheney, Frist, Hastert, Delay, Craig, Foley, Tobin, Jackson, Abramoff, Feith, Perle, Gooding, Cunningham, McGee, Bob Taft, Noe, Ney, Libby, Fletcher, Wolfowitz, Chris Newton, Brown, Jim Ellis, George Ryan, John Rowland, Ken Lay, Bernie Ebbers, Kowslowski, Armstrong Williams, David Safavian, Samuel Waksal, Andy Fastow, Claude Allen, John Colyandro, Adam Kidan.

    On my side there was Jefferson and some say Waters. Jefferson had $90,000 in his freezer, how Democratic. Ken Lay or Skillings wouldn't have bent over to scrape that amount off of their shoe.

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    "Some people cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go." Oscar Wilde
    Progressive Radio
    Authored by: SJD on Monday, August 24 2009 @ 05:54 PM GMT+4
    Hypocrite... He shook hands with, literally, the same guy he used on the campaign trail as an example of all that is evil with big business.

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    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life

    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: SJD on Friday, August 21 2009 @ 04:12 PM GMT+4
    Now that the "people" are slowing down the march to ram this thing down our throat with out real debate and input.

    Not surprising -- It's time for the Blame Game.

    Rather than examine the public’s concerns, the plans’ inconsistencies or the sheer irresponsibility, it's time to play that old DC two step of discrediting everyone who disagrees.

    Attack list:
    ** All conservative groups
    ** Media (other then MSNBC)
    ** Insurance Companies
    ** Sarah Palin
    ** Ordinary Americans practicing free speech

    The problem, everyone sees through it, and the hole is getting deeper... LOL Congressional elections are around the corner, and it's time to clean out the dead wood.



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    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life
    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: SJD on Saturday, August 22 2009 @ 04:52 PM GMT+4

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    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life

    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, August 23 2009 @ 12:08 PM GMT+4
    Obamacare must be stopped. It's a trojan horse, plain and simple, designed to ultimately bring this nation into a one payer system with more demand for care than the supply side can handle, resulting in healthcare rationing. We need healthcare reform but the Democrats are going too far too fast. If they go it alone and ram this evil, nation-changing legislation through, there will be hell to pay in 2010 and 2012.

    keep the pressure on.

    Factuses About Healthcare Deform
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Sunday, August 23 2009 @ 02:44 PM GMT+4
    Right! I heard the aliens at Area 51 are going to be the ones that ration the health care.

    Here are a few more facts about this conspiracy that the dark lords aren't telling us:

    The government will mandate your daily menu. Can you say "okra?"
    Illegal immigrants will have the right to government-paid cosmetic surgery to make them look like caucasians.
    Churches will be forced to perform weddings for gay doctors.
    Everyone will be forced to wear Mao coats and carry Obama's little red book of sayings.
    Prostitution will not only be legalized, it will be mandated.
    Potato chips will be outlawed.
    If the government pays for your health care, they will have legal claim to your body after death. Mmmmm... Soylent Green.
    You will be fined if, through your own negligence, you injure yourself.
    Tonsils will be removed at birth.

    And this is just the tip of the iceberg.


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    We Rock!
    Even the Times rationing true and more
    Authored by: SJD on Monday, August 24 2009 @ 08:27 PM GMT+4
    OMG the NEW YORK TIMES is now saying that the fears of older Americans about possible rationing of health care are actually rational and possible.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/21/health/policy/21seniors.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

    A week previous, the Times had dismissing such concerns about rationing on its front page as fringe conservative conspiracy akin to campaign rumors Obama was a Muslim.

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    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life

    Reading, it's fundamental.
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Monday, August 24 2009 @ 09:51 PM GMT+4
    If you had read past the headline and the lede, you might have noticed that it isn't the New York Times or even the piss-poor journalist* who claim that the Republican-induced fear of rationing is rational:

    ***But Medicare beneficiaries and insurance counselors say the concerns are not entirely irrational.***

    So the New York Times is reporting that the people who have been scared out of their wits by Republican lies say their fears are rational. STOP THE PRESSES!

    *It's bad journalism when your sources are "some," "others," "experts," "insurance counselors," etc. Who? Who were they? What are their qualifications? What did they actually say? Why can't you quote them?
    "May explain" and "may believe" and "could result" are also wiggle-words that mean the writer doesn't actually know what the hell he's talking about, but he's willing to get paid for writing the required number of column inches.
    And what the hell is an "insurance counselor?"


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    We Rock!
    Reading, it's fundamental.
    Authored by: annikee on Monday, August 24 2009 @ 10:00 PM GMT+4
    There you go with those facts again!

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    Freedom and fear are natural enemies.

    Believing gossip is worse than spreading it.
    Blaming the Right Backfires
    Authored by: SJD on Wednesday, August 26 2009 @ 05:01 AM GMT+4
    Apparently the Dem HQ in Denver was recently vandalized, and it was assumed that the Right, in particular, the anti-health-care "mob" was to blame.

    It turns out not to be case, but in fact, it was a lefty group know for domestic terror. Had they not been caught by police investigation, the blame on the right would have pervailed... makes one wonder why would the left attack their own.. unless it was a clear attempt to make the right look bad.. say it ain't so Joe !

    http://www.thedenverdailynews.com/article.php?aID=5465

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    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life

    Blaming the Right Backfires
    Authored by: babalu on Wednesday, August 26 2009 @ 06:54 AM GMT+4

    AAAhh Haa Haa Haa Haa - you can't be making a serious complaint here- since when does the Right need help of any kind to look bad? Oh, stop it!! AAAhhhh, Haa Haa Haa Haa Haa Haa.
    Blaming the Right Backfires
    Authored by: SJD on Thursday, August 27 2009 @ 04:31 AM GMT+4

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    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life

    Blaming the Terrorists
    Authored by: pjmelton on Wednesday, August 26 2009 @ 10:52 AM GMT+4
    Has it really come to this? The most powerful country on earth wetting its pants over window-smashing and calling it "terrorism"?

    Maybe we should torture those kids with parts from their getaway bikes. Stretch them on the repair rack! Waterboard them with chain lubricant! Threaten to rape their mothers with tire levers!

    Who knows what Food Not Bombs will try next. We must stop them. The lives of hundreds - perhaps THOUSANDS - of panes of glass are at stake!

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    "Economic laws are not made by nature. They are made by human beings." -- FDR
    Blaming the Right Backfires
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Wednesday, August 26 2009 @ 11:04 AM GMT+4
    Gee, why did they think it was the right? THEY'VE never broken into any Democratic Pary headquarters before. Ha haa ha ha.

    Wait, I know, were they carrying guns and shouting?

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    We Rock!
    Blaming the Left Backfires
    Authored by: annikee on Wednesday, August 26 2009 @ 12:32 PM GMT+4
    The irony continues to be lost on the righty-tighties.

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    Freedom and fear are natural enemies.

    Believing gossip is worse than spreading it.
    Facts - Plain & Simple
    Authored by: SJD on Wednesday, August 26 2009 @ 05:12 PM GMT+4
    Wouldn't it be nice if the news media disclosed the truth about what's happening in countries whose government's already provide goverment run Health-Care?

    In the UK, where the strains on the system are such that an increasing number of mothers are giving births in hospital corridors and elevators due to the lack of beds in maternity wards.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1209034/The-babies-born-hospital-corridors-Bed-shortage-forces-4-000-mothers-birth-lifts-offices-hospital-toilets.html

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    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life

    Facts - Plain
    Authored by: pjmelton on Wednesday, August 26 2009 @ 10:01 PM GMT+4
    Golly, it's a good thing no one in this country is proposing anything even remotely resembling the British system.

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    "Economic laws are not made by nature. They are made by human beings." -- FDR
    Facks - Pain
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Wednesday, August 26 2009 @ 11:52 PM GMT+4
    The Daily Mail? Why not quote the Weekly World News? What does batboy have to say about this?

    You are aware, aren't you, that the Daily Mail is the UK's version of a rightwing National Enquirer?

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    We Rock!
    Facts About Healthcare Reform
    Authored by: babalu on Thursday, August 27 2009 @ 11:54 AM GMT+4
    Actually, childbirth isn't an illness. The necessary health care issues are mainly prenatal care and postnatal check-ups, and except for those cases where there are complicating factors, it is completely unnecessary to rush off to a hospital to give birth.

    I hope that the heath care reform will give consideration to the Doula as an appropriate alternative to the mainstream concept that the act of giving birth requires the use of a team of medical staff.

    It wasn't so long ago that most births occurred at home. Advances in prenatal care can answer the question of whether or not an at home delivery will be a safe and healthy experience, if answered honestly and not attached to the need for a hospital to keep itself at capacity.
    Typical Government Healthcare
    Authored by: mr.mike on Friday, August 28 2009 @ 01:27 AM GMT+4
    Yeah, here's the kinda healthcare I'm looking forward to. Only a government run system would remove the same man's appendix TWICE!!!!

    http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=39827

    And then the knuckleheads said. " we would like to apologise if Mr Wattson felt dissatisfied with the care he received at Great Western Hospital.’
    Isn't that the typical public option reply. Kinda like we're sorry if the DMV service sucks.

    Oh and consider the source I used The San Francisco Sentinel. I'm surprised they even published it. It would be like ibratt referencing a quote from the Rush Limbaugh show.

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    Even though the left is dramatically changing America they still hate it.

    Insert cricket noise
    Authored by: mr.mike on Friday, August 28 2009 @ 01:46 AM GMT+4
    Just as I thought. deafening silence

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    Even though the left is dramatically changing America they still hate it.
    Mommy says:
    Authored by: babalu on Friday, August 28 2009 @ 09:12 AM GMT+4
    Mr. Mike: HORROR stories abound in the health care system HERE. Countless stories of a bad system of care, along with lawsuits to match (and yes, we pay for those, too) are all around us.
    If you're not getting the attention you think some of your posts and links deserve, it could be because it begins to border on the ridiculous. It is impossible to compare systems in other countries to a system that doesn't yet exist in this country. The bad news you share with us from other countries already exists in this country and on a much higher level.
    You are not going to convince anyone in favor of health care reform that it is some horrible misguided desire. Brace yourself, Mike, because it's coming!
    You can sometimes make very good sense when you want to make a point, but on this topic, I'm not sure you understand it well enough- when it comes to health care reform and the reasons behind it, all you do is compare an apple to an orange.

    iBratt never writes about nuthin'
    Authored by: cgrotke on Friday, August 28 2009 @ 01:54 AM GMT+4
    You are as responsible for the content of the site as much as anyone.
    Why continue to put yourself down for things you don't do? : )

    I would venture a guess that not many people writing about
    Brattleboro topics have much to say about an out of town radio host.
    He's not local. His local feed was cancelled years ago. He's just not
    that important, except to his fans and the GOP leadership.

    (Do a search, though. Mr. Limbaugh is all over this site. Usually it's
    part of a story about how he is wrong. We talked about his addiction
    to painkillers, too, if I recall correctly.)
    Something to Chew on
    Authored by: SJD on Friday, August 28 2009 @ 04:44 AM GMT+4
    The feds don’t have the Constitutional power to force Americans to buy anything, including health insurance.

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    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life
    Something to Chew on
    Authored by: babalu on Friday, August 28 2009 @ 08:43 AM GMT+4
    Good, SJD. So once we have health care reform, don't buy into it. Let us know how you meet your health care needs today, and how you'll meet them in the future - are you not feeling so well, lately??
    Something to Chew on
    Authored by: SJD on Friday, August 28 2009 @ 04:36 PM GMT+4
    Another anomaly to chew on:

    Assume you know that John Holdren, Obama's "Science Czar", says: Forced abortions and mass sterilization needed to save the planet. He documented this in his co-authored 1977 book, Econscience. One might say, that was in 77, hey you don't come around to the real world when your that far out of it by 2009.

    ** Women should be forced to abort their pregnancies, whether they wanted to or not;
    ** The population at large could be sterilized by infertility drugs intentionally put into the nation's drinking water or in food;
    ** Single mothers and teen mothers should have their babies seized from them against their will and given away to other couples to raise;
    ** People who "contribute to social deterioration" (i.e. undesirables) "can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility" -- in other words, be compelled to have abortions or be sterilized.
    ** A transnational "Planetary Regime" should assume control of the global economy and also dictate the most intimate details of Americans' lives -- using an armed international police force.

    I can only imagine there is no disagreement on this line of thinking... by our Science CZAR .. OMG

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    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life
    Something to Chew on
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Friday, August 28 2009 @ 11:56 PM GMT+4
    Have you been listening to your shortwave radio?

    ---
    We Rock!
    Something to Drool over
    Authored by: xteeth on Saturday, August 29 2009 @ 10:29 AM GMT+4
    It comes in clearly when you wear an aluminum foil hat.

    ---
    "Some people cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go." Oscar Wilde
    My Kind of Farmer
    Authored by: SJD on Saturday, August 29 2009 @ 03:46 PM GMT+4

    ---
    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life

    Something to Chew on
    Authored by: SJD on Saturday, August 29 2009 @ 03:54 PM GMT+4
    Ehrlich, Paul R., Anne H. Ehrlich, and John P. Holdren. 1977. Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment. San Francisco: W.H. Freeman.

    ---
    Drive Liberals Crazy; be responsible, prosper, and choose life
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