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    55 Inches Is Different in DC    
    Thursday, February 11 2010 @ 03:24 PM GMT+4
    Contributed by: cgrotke

    OtherWashington, D.C. just broke their 100 year record for snowfall. Over 55 inches.

    For those of us up here, that's a nice pile of snow but nothing too worrisome. We plow, we shovel, and we go on. We're used to snow. Heck, we'd gladly take a foot or two for the ski jump this weekend.

    For DC, though, this is extremely unusual. It's climate change in action. I'd like to try to put it in perspective.

    ...

    First of all, DC is a town that typically shuts down on the forecast of snow. No actual snow is required. Just the though of the possibility of snow can throw the town into a tizzy.

    I'll never forget my first DC snowfall. I had started working at the Children's Museum. One Thursday evening, it snowed. It was about half an inch of dry powder.

    Friday morning I got ready and walked to work. When I got there, the guard at the gate asked me what I was doing. I told Doc that I had come to work, and to get my paycheck.

    He started to laugh. 'Nobody's coming today. There's snow..."

    I walked home and had to wait three extra days to get paid, but learned that DC was not a city that can deal well with snow.

    ...

    It makes sense. It's a southern city, with residents from all over the globe. Some familiar with snow but others familiar with the tropics. And snow in DC is an unusual winter event. It doesn't always happen, and when it does it is usually a dusting, or some sloshy ice.

    Fast forward to the recent DC storms. Put yourself in their place. Half an inch cripples things. They got 55 inches.

    That would be similar to a series of storms dropping, oh, I don't know, 15 to 20 feet of snow on Brattleboro in a matter of days.

    DC residents don't generally have snowblowers. I've heard stories of DC folks pouring hot water on icy steps to "melt it" - not realizing that it refreezes.

    Their plows are wimpy. They don't get a lot of practice. Many side roads don't get plowed at all. I've seen streets near the Capitol get covered with snow, then left to melt and refreeze until it went away. Imagine if we only plowed Main Street and Western Ave.

    ...

    Lise and I both have relatives down there. We're enjoying their photos and stories, and laughing that if they want to escape the snow they can always drive north to visit us in Vermont.

    The DC area is expecting another small storm early next week.

     

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  • 55 Inches Is Different in DC | 32 comments | Create New Account
    The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they may say.
    Climate change?
    Authored by: PutneyReject on Thursday, February 11 2010 @ 05:02 PM GMT+4
    Safe and Reliable Snowfalls
    Authored by: cgrotke on Thursday, February 11 2010 @ 05:31 PM GMT+4
    Right - an unusual el nino event mixed with other unusual weather
    events. That is different.

    Here's the main point I think you're after, albeit contradictory:

    "Putting this weekend’s storm in perspective with global climate
    change is impossible since the trend is identifiable only over decades
    or centuries. But the Environmental Protection Agency says the
    eastern part of the country has become significantly wetter in the last
    century."

    So the author says it is impossible to put into perspective without
    decades of data, but says decades of EPA data show that things are
    changing.

    And we know this broke 100 year records. There's your century.
    AGW or El Nino
    Authored by: PutneyReject on Thursday, February 11 2010 @ 06:27 PM GMT+4
    My point is that El Nino has more to do with this year's snowfall along the Mid-Atlantic than anything attributable to AGW.

    I'm unclear on what your point is...

    BTW, "El Nino" is spanish for "The Nino"
    AGW or El Nino
    Authored by: cgrotke on Thursday, February 11 2010 @ 06:40 PM GMT+4
    My point was that is snowed a LOT in DC - an amount that would feel
    similar to us in Vermont getting about 20 feet in a week. And, being DC,
    they are ill-equipped to handle even a half an inch, let alone over 55
    inches.

    That's all.
    AGW or El Nino
    Authored by: PutneyReject on Thursday, February 11 2010 @ 07:32 PM GMT+4
    Pesky semantics.
    Semantics
    Authored by: Todd on Saturday, February 13 2010 @ 01:47 AM GMT+4
    They certainly are pesky! After all semantics is the attempt to really understand what somebody meant by what they said. Which is indeed a lot more work than simply reading what you want into the communication, or not really trying at all. <g>
    AGW or El Nino
    Authored by: tomaidh on Tuesday, February 16 2010 @ 02:52 AM GMT+4
    It’s actually El Niño (Neenyo) and it means ''the boy
    child'', (the infant Jesus) and refers to the
    extraordinarily warm currents that sometimes crop up in
    the Pacific around Christmas when trade winds slacken.
    These currents have predictable effects on world
    weather, including the increasingly severe Nor’easters
    battering DC this year..
    Nor’easters
    Authored by: cgrotke on Tuesday, February 16 2010 @ 02:54 AM GMT+4
    ...that come from the southwest... : )
    It's raining in the Mohave Desert, therefore deserts don't exist??
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Thursday, February 11 2010 @ 08:50 PM GMT+4
    Global Warming isn't the opposite of snow

    Bill Nye, the science guy, explains to Rachel Maddow why snow in the
    northeast in the winter doesn't have anything to do with global warming.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/35340221#35340221
    It's raining in the Mohave Desert, therefore deserts don't exist??
    Authored by: paulgardner on Saturday, February 13 2010 @ 03:54 PM GMT+4
    This is a nicely rational discussion on TRMS.
    55 Inches Is Different in DC
    Authored by: annikee on Friday, February 12 2010 @ 06:36 PM GMT+4
    I never even heard of "El Nino" before 1998. And back then they said it only occured every few years. Now every year is "El Nino" weather.
    El Niño
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Friday, February 12 2010 @ 08:37 PM GMT+4
    I first heard about El Niño back when I was living in Europe and my
    dad phoned and explained why Northern Europe was having a warm
    winter (1982/83): it was being reported that it was caused by "El
    Niño" changing the jet stream all over the Northern Hemisphere. I
    didn't know about global warming until 1988, but I knew from growing
    up in the D.C. suburbs that we hadn't had consistently good cold and
    snow (that lasted for very long) since 1968/69. As a kid who loved to
    sled and who counted the days off (snow days) I was in a good
    position to know the winter weather.

    What scientists are saying is that El Niños are happening more and
    more frequently now because of the warming climate, and the colder
    "La Niñas" are happening less frequently. Also, precipitation events
    tend to be much stronger as more and more water vapor stays in the
    atmosphere, a direct result of man-made CO-2 emissions. This
    explains in large part the heavy snow storms (that often melt and
    don't stay all winter) and the intense rains that seem to happen on
    more and more summer days in the Northeastern US.
    Correction
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Friday, February 12 2010 @ 08:46 PM GMT+4
    In the seventies, it was much warmer for the D.C. area, for example,
    the winter of 1972/73 we only got snow ONCE that was measurable: in
    late October. Then, nothing! In 1975 it was in the seventies around
    Christmas, and it didn't feel Christmassy to me. Then in the winter of
    1976/77, the year Jimmy Carter was inaugurated, when Manfred Mann's
    song "Blinded by the Light" was all over WPGC, we had a super cold
    winter, an exception to the rule in the seventies. They even shut down
    my high school because of the cold. We also had a couple of blizzards in
    1979 and in the eighties, but most of the years from 1969-1989 were
    milder, less snowy winters than normal, 1976/77 being a cold exception.
    Sing with me...
    Authored by: cgrotke on Friday, February 12 2010 @ 09:19 PM GMT+4
    "Sweet Home Alabama, where the skis are so new..."

    The deep south is getting more snow than we are.

    Snow all across the 50 States
    Authored by: George Tirebiter on Saturday, February 13 2010 @ 01:58 AM GMT+4
    Of course, all 50 states are getting snow. It has been a cold winter.

    ---
    "Oh, was it a joke, you mean?"
    - John Cage
    Snow all across the 50 States
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Saturday, February 13 2010 @ 02:43 AM GMT+4
    Hawaii got snow?? Oh, you mean on the top of the big volcano on the big
    island! Or was that a joke??--Cagey John

    Snow all across the 50 States
    Authored by: George Tirebiter on Saturday, February 13 2010 @ 01:07 PM GMT+4
    You forgot Puerto Rico, Lovie Bud?!$

    ---
    "Oh, was it a joke, you mean?"
    - John Cage
    Snow all across the 50 States
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Saturday, February 13 2010 @ 01:14 PM GMT+4
    Puerto Rico is not a state, Georgie.

    Gerald Ford tried in 1976, but it never happened.
    Sing with me..."I want to LIVE, I want to GIVE, I've been a Miner for a Heart of Gold"
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Saturday, February 13 2010 @ 02:41 AM GMT+4
    That's a good song, but I still like Neil Young a lot and think those guys
    were A-holes for dissing him in their song. "Heart of Gold" was the first
    45 record I ever bought. It was great then, still sounds great today.
    Sweet Home Alabama?
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Saturday, February 13 2010 @ 02:49 AM GMT+4
    Sweet Home's Huntsville campus just had a shooting and three faculty
    members there are dead. Yikes. I think I'll stay in Vermont.

    55 inches in DC is 20 feet in VT
    Authored by: tiny on Saturday, February 13 2010 @ 02:08 PM GMT+4
    I gotta say, that is ridiculous.
    Yes, DC and the South panic at the sight of snow covering the tarmac
    and go home at first sight. While DC has plows, not as many as hear
    and in Atlanta, the only snow plows are at the airport.

    If their storm had hit NE and VT, it would have caused the same
    problems here. It was two massive back to back storms! The plowers
    could not keep up with the snow and stayed home. That would have
    happen here too. I contend it would be worse. Why? Since VT temps
    run lower than DC, the acculated snow would freeze and stay around
    longer.
    20ft out West is 55" here
    Authored by: Todd on Saturday, February 13 2010 @ 02:34 PM GMT+4
    Its all definitely relative to equipment, road construction and peoples experience. My old turf out West had a 60"+ in less than a week just last month, and that's normal. They have had weeks with twice that amount and more. Good storms put down 1-2" an hour, add up the hours over a week and you see what can happen!

    The resulting avalanches often bury the roads in 50 feet of snow, but they see it coming. They close the passes, use hand charges, choppers and mortars to knock down the big slide paths. And people hear the news on their clock radio, smile, and rolls over in their bed knowing they get to sleep in late! Its all relative.

    (It also helps having rotary snowplows big enough they they could chew up a semi)
    Maybe this is a better way to compare...
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Saturday, February 13 2010 @ 03:32 PM GMT+4
    Washington, D.C. often gets "Bermuda Highs" and Gulf of Mexico
    airflow in the summer, which makes the hot summers unbearably
    tropical in humidity and discomfort level. For example, I was on the
    Mall on July 4, 1999 and the temperature was a baking 102 degrees!
    Add to that the humidity and all the paved surfaces and marble, and
    you had quite a hot day to hang out waiting for the fireworks to
    happen. And even at night, it only cooled down to about 85 degrees or
    so! But people in D.C. were able to adjust to this, because tropical-
    style heatwaves in the summer are not all that uncommon.

    Now, let's look at New England for comparison. It used to be that New
    England had one or two heat waves each summer, for example I
    remember in the summer of 1970 being up on the Maine coast
    vacationing, and it was a whopping 90 degrees!!! People didn't know
    what to do. Disc jockeys on the radio, in between spinning Bread's
    "Make it With You" and the Supremes' "Ain't No Mountain High
    Enough" were advising that people hang out near the ocean to cool
    off. Even today in New England, with more heat waves now, due to
    global warming, than back in 1970, people here FREAK OUT at 100
    degrees. They can't handle it. Part of it is lack of air conditioners, but
    still, they act like it's the end of the world. In D.C., where they can't
    handle snow, they know how to handle massive heat waves.

    It's all a matter of what you're used to.

    Now, wasn't "Lola" also playing that summer of 1970? I seem to
    remember that one as well. Also, the Carpenters' seemed to be
    playing all the time "(They Long To Be) Close To You". That was a
    great summer to be a kid!
    Heat Horror
    Authored by: Todd on Saturday, February 13 2010 @ 06:43 PM GMT+4
    Yeah, humid heat drives me nuts. 105 degrees in Arizona is far more tolerable to me than 85 degrees and humid here. I spent a year living just south of Atlanta Georgia though. Now THAT is hell on earth in the summer time. And its like living in space, you go from airlock to airlock. From air conditioned house into garage or straight out to car -- which has AC. Schools often have underground parking and always AC inside. Malls often having enclosed parking and of course powerful AC inside. You don't ever have to be outside sometimes, which is pretty sad.

    But you know, when its cold, you can always just put more clothes on. When its hot? What can you do but either be in the water or hiding inside with AC? People in places like southern Florida have forgotten that it used to be considered an horrific mosquito infested swamp in the summers, before the advent of AC. Declining economic conditions coupled with rising energy costs might remind them at some point! AC is expensive and consumes massive amounts of energy.

    Also, as a geek - I can't help but always compare our systems to every other system out there. Heat speeds up all processes, which can be fun, but also shorter! Cellular metabolism and burnout, biological decay, it even shortens the life of electrical and mechanical systems.

    All a long winded way of saying: give me cool over hot any day!
    El Niño - the little boy
    Authored by: paulgardner on Saturday, February 13 2010 @ 04:41 PM GMT+4
    I first heard about el nino (Spanish for "the little boy") in 1978 when I went to work for the Forest Service in southwestern Washington state.
    In the Pacific Northwest (Washington state plus northern California, Oregon, British Columbia in Canada and lower Alaska) el nino means forest fire danger through the roof. For 90-95% of the year in the PNW (the Pacific Northwest) the weather comes off the Pacific and cools as it rises over the Cascades and coastal ranges. As it cools rain is wrung out of the air and it's damp - essentially a temperate rainforest (as oppsed to the Amazon's tropical one).
    When el nino arrives - usually in August, all that reverses and the weather comes from the arid eastern part of the state instead. A week of that and loggers are forbidden to start chain saws for fear of striking a spark and starting a fire.
    On several occasions while driving around the forest in those conditions I saw smoke in the woods. I'd call into the station on my radio and report the spot then take the shovel and canteen that are always with any Forest Service truck or rental and go find the thing.
    What happens there is the mature trees are generally 5' in diameter and 200' long. When they fall, they leave a pile of decaying matter - peat essentially, called duff - on the forest floor for many decades. When lightning strikes, it often finds these old piles of duff and ignites a small spot in the pile. The fire doesn't get much oxygen down in the pile and burns so slowly it doesn't generate enough smoke to see and barely enough to smell if you happen to be standing nearby. and the duff is generally wet so it burns hidden in the pile sometimes for years till on of these el ninos dries out the top of the pile and the fire comes to the surface. if not caught right away they can develop into a major blaze - which is why in addition to having people driving around looking for fires they have planes overfly the forest twice a day in these conditions.

    In California el nino means fires as well, but it is also bad for fisheries. I'm not clear on the specifics, but there are spots along the Mexi-Cali coast where hot spots on the ocean floor cause upwellings of warmer water that are nutrient rich. These nourish plankton and zoo plankton which in turn feeds a chain of larger sea life.
    El nino heats the ocean surface so much that these upwellings are dampened. The whole chain of life suffers - including the fisherman who depend on the catch.

    I'm told that this January in Vermont was 4 degrees above normal. It didn't feel that way to me, but climate change is not a shoot from the hip kinda thing. A single person can't tell and neither can a talking head in the Fox news studio.
    You have to get out in the "field" and take measurements (pesky thing, science).
    Measurements
    Authored by: cgrotke on Sunday, February 14 2010 @ 04:27 PM GMT+4
    Here is a great set of interactive graphs from a new NOAA site:

    http://www.climate.gov

    If you scroll down slightly, there is a global climate dashboard. Check
    out data on temperatures, but also carbon dioxide levels, amount of
    incoming sunlight, the sea level and amount of arctic sea ice.

    Switch tabs and you can see data on Oceanic Nino, southern
    oscillations, and so on...

    Both tabs have a slider at the top to adjust what periods of time you
    want to examine.
    El Niño - the little boy
    Authored by: SJD on Monday, February 15 2010 @ 01:38 AM GMT+4
    Climate change, or at least how or why it does or does not change is far from settled despite what the talking heads say.

    Today - 2/14/10 "World may not be warming, say scientists"
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article7026317.ece

    ---
    Don't tell Obama What Comes After a Trillion.

    Hope for the best, plan for the worst
    Authored by: Todd on Monday, February 15 2010 @ 02:03 AM GMT+4
    Yep, why worry about the possibility for our children? Lets just assume our viewpoints are true!

    But the very clear fact is, the best survival strategy is always to hope for the best, but plan for and be ready for the worst. To assume the status-quo is fine, and not plan for the possibility that things are changing? Idiocy. Any chess master, military strategist or historian would tell you the same thing.

    Yep, perhaps humans are not causing or accelerating climate change. We really just don't know for certain. But the smart money is on being ready for any conclusion. So being open to the fact that we might be messing our nest up? And basing our actions on conservative views, I.E. conserving our environment 'just in case'? Its simple logical and strategic thinking for the benefit of all of us and our children.
    Read the Whole Article
    Authored by: paulgardner on Monday, February 15 2010 @ 02:36 AM GMT+4
    SJD, before you link an article, you might want to read it. This doesn't say what you seem to think.
    Here's the last three paragraphs:

    “It’s not just temperature rises that tell us the world is warming,” he said. “We also have physical changes like the fact that sea levels have risen around five inches since 1972, the Arctic icecap has declined by 40% and snow cover in the northern hemisphere has declined.”

    The European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts has recently issued a new set of global temperature readings covering the past 30 years, with thermometer readings augmented by satellite data.

    Dr Vicky Pope, head of climate change advice at the Met Office, said: “This new set of data confirms the trend towards rising global temperatures and suggest that, if anything, the world is warming even more quickly than we had thought.”
    Read the Whole Article
    Authored by: SJD on Tuesday, February 16 2010 @ 01:29 PM GMT+4
    Like you, I'm no climatologist, but recently this thing is getting a real deep second look, to the point of exposing self serving groups, I'm sure funding matters play no small part in perpetuating a PC theory even to the point of fabricating or overlooking data. Let's face it, you can cry climate change for too much snow, or no snow.. a win win

    I like the part; "Man is driven by his ego and finds it impossible to think even the weather is not all about him".

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/warming_meltdown_iD1hypJAstOrvovafbIbGK

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/feb/16/pruden-the-red-hot-scam-begins-to-unravel/

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703630404575053781465774008.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_opinion

    ---
    Don't tell Obama What Comes After a Trillion.

    Read the Whole Article
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Tuesday, February 16 2010 @ 02:28 PM GMT+4
    "Let's face it, you can cry climate change for too much snow, or no
    snow.. a win win "

    Yeah, but if you look at average global temperatures (which are
    rising), oceans (which are acidifying), glaciers (which are retreating
    worldwide), and the North Polar ice cap (which is on a downward path
    towards thinner and smaller surface area each summer on average)---
    -and you've got GLOBAL WARMING.

    If we don't solve global warming, it will be a LOSE LOSE for us all.

    Enjoy the light snowfall today.
    For those of you who don't "habla español..."
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Sunday, February 14 2010 @ 01:35 PM GMT+4
    Weather Link
    Look outside, then look here.

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