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    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book    
    Wednesday, March 10 2010 @ 08:30 PM GMT+5
    Contributed by: Fish

    OpinionHere's how I understand it. A line item in the Brattleboro town budget has been entered stating that the town of Brattleboro will adopt the pay as you throw system. For those of you not paying attention that would mean that for every bag of garbage you put by the curbside you would pay $2.00 per bag – which of course you’ll need to buy ahead of time in lots of 10 or 20. As opposed the "free/included in your astronomical property taxes" curbside pick-up you receive now. You would need to purchase these bags at some predetermined pickup point and use only those bags.

    This system has been examined and actually voted down once. But our town select board (well, to be fair only three of them) have decided that they want it in the budget and they want it passed. If the budget passes, then pay as you throw passes. I have to say I'm not a fan. I pay what I consider to be an exorbitant tax rate and one of the things I enjoy for my money is dragging my stinky garbage to the curb ever Sunday night then taking my empty trash can back to it's rightful spot on my property. And I enjoy because don’t have to seek out a special trash bag and I don't have to pay $2.00 for that bag.

    The hang-up is born from a $338,000 line item that the town pays for curbside pickup. They are entering the item into the town budget under the guise that they want to increase recycling. Where that may be true in part I don’t buy it as a whole! It’s strictly a move to reduce the financial burden from the town. But let’s say the average person tosses one bag of garbage a week – the annual cost for them would be $104.00 per year. Or what about the single person that lives alone and probably doesn’t accumulate a bag every two weeks. That should smell nice on a nice hot August day. Will this promote illegal dumping in the outlying rural areas? What about the tried and true old school method of burning it? These are all problems.

    But the biggest problem is the assault on the checkbook. Here in Brattleboro the medium income is $32,000 per year (before taxes). Folks making this kind of money will find it a hard ship to layout $20.00 for ten bags when that same $20.00 will put food on the table. Some of our select board thinks this is not a problem. I think some of our select board need to pull their heads out of their respective gluteus maximus and look beyond their neighbor’s house. This is a financial hardship for folks. But they (again only talking about three of them) don’t care. Because even if we’re successful in getting it pulled from the town budget it’s rumored that they will not return the $338,000 to the budget for trash removal, there by force us to… you guessed it – pay as you throw. All I can say is we need to get loud about this, because if they do that it’s going to take 20% of the registered voters to remove select board members. And with only 16% showing up to the polls in the last election it doesn’t seem likely.

    Our last select board developed a what I called a gang of three mentality, so the towns people on of Brattleboro spoke and selected some new folks. But it looks like we’re back where we started, with only three people making the decision for 12,000.

    But there is a simpler solution. If you work strictly from the registered voter numbers and divided the $338,000 by the registered voters it works out to be roughly $37.00 per person per year. Or about $9.00 per quarter, or $3.00 per month. If they raised taxes for Brattleborians by $37.00 per year folks could just go about their lives and the town would be saved this major inconvenience of pay as you throw. But that’s just me talking… did someone say Mayoral system?

     

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  • Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book | 49 comments | Create New Account
    The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they may say.
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: Joann on Wednesday, March 10 2010 @ 09:16 PM GMT+5
    Excellent article setting out the truth! Thanks, Fish!
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: Mosski on Wednesday, March 10 2010 @ 10:43 PM GMT+5
    It's Deja Vu all over again, as Yogi Berra used to say!

    I don't want to weigh all the merits (not many!) and
    shortcomings (very many!!) of PAYT.
    This forum has done a great job of that in Feb-
    March, 2009 and again this year. What I
    want to do is drive a stake through the heart of this
    vampire selectboard that wants to suck
    precious dollars out of the pockets of those who have
    few dollars to spare just to look good.

    Here is the path to defeat PAYT:

    Details -- I don't want to get too detailed here as
    Barbara Sondag, Town Manager, is a
    reader of this forum, but suffice it to say that we
    need to get the $328,000 back into the
    budget. I think we can do that either at Town
    Meeting or with a Town-wide Referendum (an
    Australian ballot voted on by all registered voters of
    Brattleboro).

    If we are successful and the money is put back into
    the budget the selectboard is not
    required by law to use that money for the purpose of
    dropping PAYT, but the political
    pressure will be daunting. I think they will relent. If
    they do not and still go ahead with
    PAYT then who knows what just might hit the fan!

    Please e-mail me mosski@comcast.net if you would
    like to get involved.
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: SpudHill on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 03:40 AM GMT+5
    Fish, thanks for a succinct spelling out of the cost to residents of this plan. I'd rather they raise my taxes, it's going to be a hell of a lot cheaper. But then I say follow the money, someone somewhere is benefiting from this.

    My suggestion: the easiest thing would for the budget to be voted down in protest of this slight-of-hand until they remove the line. It's really underhanded, were they planning on pointing this out to anyone before the budget vote? I'm getting a little concerned about the way this group is doing business.
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: SpudHill on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 06:51 AM GMT+5
    Well, now that I've had my morning coffee and calmed down a bit let me ask this:
    Was this (line item) the way that PAYT was initially intended to be re-presented? Or was it to be a single vote separate from the budget?

    Is there a line item veto for the Town Meeting members who vote?

    If not then they should just vote down the budget until it's removed.
    And actually in my opinion if this is how it was intended to be presented, then they should just vote down the budget untll it's removed anyway.

    Fish is correct, let them raise my taxes by $50 a year, $100 a year, it'll be better for everyone concerned and probably cheaper for me. 1 garbage bag a week, c'mon how many people with kids get by with one bag a week?
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: Amanda on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 09:35 AM GMT+5
    We have four kids and fill a single 33-gallon trash bag only about every 1-2 weeks.

    We recycle as much as possible, do backyard composting of veggie scraps and plate scrapings, and take all of our other compostables/biodegradables to the town compost dropoff. We drop off recyclables and compostables 1-2x/month.

    Yes, this is not convenient for people without cars or without space for home composting. But for us, with a car and time to make the 1-2x/monthly trip, it has taken very little extra effort to reduce our actual "trash."
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: SpudHill on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 10:16 AM GMT+5
    That's impressive, I think I need to get some larger garbage bags first of all, I'm not sure mine are that big (how big are the $2 ones)....I compost as much as possible and recycle but I'm still not down that low. Good job.....
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: richardtete on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 09:08 AM GMT+5
    The Selectboard is under no legal obligation to use any monies added to the budget for any specific reason. There is, however, a moral obligation to do so. If the SB declines to do that, they will create a dangerous precedent which has never been done before. Should money be added, I have this suggestion which I will make at Town Meeting. That is, we should request the SB to pledge to use the added money for Garbage removal and to get rid of PAYT. Should they decline to make that pledge, I will suggest to the TM members that we vote down to\he budget and make these folks go back to the drawing board.
    Bob Fagelson
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: Mosski on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 10:08 AM GMT+5
    I like this approach, Bob. However, I would like to
    see Town Meeting take the "action" of amending the
    budget to add the $320,000 with the desired
    intention that the SB would not proceed with PAYT.

    If that amendment is defeated it opens the door to
    petition for a Referendum by the whole town
    (Australian ballot) -- we would either need 50 Town
    Meeting Rep signatures or 250 Voters of the Town.

    Send me your e-mail address and I will send you a
    copy of the petition and Referendum article wording

    If the amendment passes, and I have my doubts
    that it will, then we have the quandary you have
    suggested. As much as I find this board's PAYT
    history despicable I truly believe that either Martha or
    Jesse would vote to scrap PAYT if TM puts the
    $328,000 back in. Dick is a lost case, I'm afraid....

    Moss Kahler
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: annikee on Wednesday, March 17 2010 @ 09:54 AM GMT+5
    Thank you Bob!!!
    My Thoughts as a Keynesian Neo-Modernist
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 10:15 AM GMT+5
    Clearly, the three Selectboard members voting 'yes' to Pay-as-You-
    Throw are following some version of supply-side economics, where
    government services are cut (lower taxes like what Reagan proposed)
    in order to "grow the economy" i.e. "get government off our backs" as
    the people of California used to scream in the late seventies
    (Proposition 13 in 1978). What has happened in America since the late
    seventies has been a slide away from Keynesian economics, where we
    RAISED taxes during and after WWII and SPENT the monies in the
    public sector for such things as education (the G.I. bill), housing for
    the middle class (FHA loans) and we taxed the business sector in the
    post-war period at a higher percentage than we do today. Taxes were
    actually higher for the corporate sector in the 1950's than they are
    today! AND we had a stronger, healthier middle class 50-60 years ago
    than we have today, largely because of public funds spent to help
    keep the middle class healthy. As economist Peter Galbraith writes,
    this was "Keynesianism in action."

    It seems to me that the Brattleboro Selectboard is out of touch, and
    still drinking the koolaid of Reagan-era Supply-side economics, which
    has left this country in economic ruins and helped to destroy the
    American middle class, with tax cuts and a slide back to the Gilded
    Age of concentrated wealth, limited government, limited public sector
    spending, more privatization, more "neo-feudalism".

    Shame on those people who didn't show up at the polls on March 2.
    When you leave the town to the Potters, and you lose the Bailey
    Savings and Loans as a result, you reap the results of voter apathy.
    My Thoughts as a Keynesian Neo-Modernist
    Authored by: SpudHill on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 10:18 AM GMT+5
    Potters, who are the Potters? and I've never seen this Bailey Savings and Loan, are their interest rates good?
    heh heh
    as in Bedford Falls
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 10:22 AM GMT+5
    Oh, excuse me, I was making a metaphor to 'Bedford Falls' as in the
    "Move Your Money" campaign. I was hoping folks would get it.
    as in Bedford Falls
    Authored by: SpudHill on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 11:05 AM GMT+5
    Oh I got it, that's why I added the heh heh
    but let me add this
    Lately, and more so if PAYT passes,
    the only way my "money has been moving" is out of my pocket
    and into the hands of the town, the local retailers, the revenoooers and
    my bill collectors
    as in Bedford Falls
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 12:14 PM GMT+5
    "Move Your Money" is a campaign online to get people to take their
    money out of bloated, large banks that took federal stimulus monies and
    spent these funds on CEO compensation and other non-productive
    expenditures of public money.

    I wish I hadn't added that last tagline about "Potter" and "Bailey Building
    and Loan" because this argument distracts from the bigger economic
    issue I raised in my initial post.
    What are you, some kind of Commie?
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 01:35 PM GMT+5
    ***It seems to me that the Brattleboro Selectboard is out of touch, and still drinking the koolaid of Reagan-era Supply-side economics, which has left this country in economic ruins and helped to destroy the American middle class, with tax cuts and a slide back to the Gilded Age of concentrated wealth, limited government, limited public sector spending, more privatization, more "neo-feudalism."***

    Nicely said. We've spent the last 35 years coddling the rich. Where has it gotten us?

    ---
    We Rock!
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: annikee on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 12:15 PM GMT+5
    Thank you Fish!
    Dick De Gray has said he's doing it no matter what we say, so I say it's time to say, "Goodbye, Dick!"
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: SpudHill on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 12:55 PM GMT+5
    SO not knowing the particular players here but operating on my "it works just like a co-op board theory"* does Dick DeGray have any vested interest in any way in real estate holdings and would therefore be one of the big beneficiaries financially if PAYT goes through?

    *The "works just like a co-op board theory" holds that most people who run for a co-op board have a reason that will benefit them, i.e., they want sub-let laws changed so they can sub-let an apartment, they want the building to pay to insulate a boiler room because they feel it's making their apartment too hot, they want the building to pay for a gym in the basement because they don't want to go out to exercise, they want seller's fees changed so that they are grandfathered in and don't have to pay them since they are planning on selling their apartment......you get my drift....

    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: richardtete on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 02:48 PM GMT+5
    I can asure you that DeGray has no such interest. He does, however, think that he has the answer to virtually everything and he has a "My way or the highway" attitude. Try playing golf with him sometime.
    Bob Fagelson
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: annikee on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 03:06 PM GMT+5
    Dick's wife Missy Galanes owns a lot of real estate- some even on Main St.
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: richardtete on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 03:18 PM GMT+5
    You have a point, but his ego outweighs any other factor. Remember, he's the guy who pushed for the sales tax increase despite the fact that it woujld affect his wife.
    Bob
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: SpudHill on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 05:14 PM GMT+5
    The sales tax increase isn't exactly the same thing, small potatoes...as I remember last year there was discussion somewhere that indicated that holders of commercial realty were going to see the biggest benefit financially from PAYT.

    I'm not saying that this is necessarily why he's so adamant about this after it's been voted down but I do think it would be helpful to know just for reassurance how much the family as a whole stands to profit. And I might be mis-remembering the details but I think it was stated that commercial owners were going to benefit quite a bit.

    Does anyone remember the particulars?
    I think you misread Dick DeGray
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 06:07 PM GMT+5
    I could be wrong, but I doubt this is a 'personal gain' thing for Dick so
    much as it is his principal as he sees it, regarding the financial
    situation and the need for revenue. So, I think this comes down to an
    argument on whether a broad tax increase is the smarter way to go
    than a tax cut, make individuals pay their own way argument. The
    'pay your own way' is the way we've been going since deregulation in
    the seventies/eighties. I believe it's the WRONG direction and we
    need to turn around, toward more fair taxing of the population for
    public goods, something that has been out of style in this country until
    the worst economic downturn of the past 70 years changed some
    people's minds. Despite my thinking that Dick is wrong in his decision,
    I don't think his character record points toward a personal gain/greedy
    motivation; rather, I think this is a basic philosophical slant on his
    part toward supply side economics and limited government.
    I think you misread Dick DeGray
    Authored by: SpudHill on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 08:04 PM GMT+5
    Thank you, like I said not knowing the players here. I guess in an odd way or maybe not so odd that is reassuring because I'm pretty sure i remembre that the businesses/commercial owners were going to see substantial savings
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: Truman on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 01:17 PM GMT+5
    I don't know why no one has simply ASKED the taxpayers if they'd be willing to have an x$ increase in taxes in order to keep garbage pickup the same as it is now. Or what it would cost to add in weekly recycling, for that matter!

    I too am willing to pay a bit extra to keep from having to buy special bags. No one's asked ME.

    This current board is all about not increasing taxes by a penny--it was the song of many of them. It's funny though, I understand that keeping services the same will cost a little more each year. Let us all help decide what big changes are made (not saying I should be consulted if they want to drop one public works job, for instance...but any change that directly impacts a wide majority of the public)
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: Brandon on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 02:51 PM GMT+5
    That is what Town Meeting is for, your reps should be speaking for you.
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 03:27 PM GMT+5
    If Bratt had a real Town Meeting, anyone of these people could make a motion on the floor and state their case to their fellow voters instead of hoping that someone else will do it.

    ---
    We Rock!
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: Timmy on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 05:41 PM GMT+5
    Cheap shots at what I feel is a very effective Representative Town Meeting are not needed here, in my opinion.
    I take my role in representing the citizens of District 3 very seriously, and try my best to get opinions from as many as possible. But you know how many people have contacted me, unsolicited, with their thoughts on PAYT? - One.
    And that was last year.

    Watch town meeting on March 20 on BCTV, or streaming here.
    I predict you will see your perspective voiced during what is sure to be a lengthy discussion.

    Thanks,
    Tim Wessel
    District 3 Rep.
    vtdigitalprods@yahoo.com

    Info on Meeting reps:
    http://www.brattleboro.org/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={7CC26D9E-CDA3-42AB-A12E-666D61E35A7A}&DE={8C210C3F-1114-47EF-A326-42FAF582C427}
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: SpudHill on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 06:08 PM GMT+5
    I suspect Tim that this proposal and the effects it will have are pretty under the radar for most people. Pass it and then you'll start hearing from people for sure!

    Having done similar stints in varying situations I've found that you hear from people once they are directly affected not before so much. I would suspect that this form of "meeting" was taken up because of the town's size?
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: annikee on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 06:20 PM GMT+5
    Well Tim, I'm in D3 and I'm saying no to PAYT.
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 06:50 PM GMT+5
    Cheap shot? It's a simple statement of fact. Representative town meeting is not a real Vermont Town Meeting, which is an exercise in direct democracy. Representative Town Meeting is, essentially, the meeting of a large municipal board.

    Brattleboro's representative Town Meeting disenfranchises Brattleboro voters. Voters in other Vermont towns have the right to exercise direct democracy at least one day a year, sometimes more. Brattleboro voters never have this basic right of Vermont citizenship. Even you don't have that right - as you rightly point out, your job is to represent. I'm sure you take your responsibility seriously, but representation, no matter how good it is, is not the same as participation. Brattleboro residents may be perfectly happy with their very unVermont disenfranchisement, but I will continue to disbelieve it.

    Personally, I think representative Town Meeing (and, in other towns, excessive use of Australian balloting) is partially responsible for the apathy that results in a 16% voter turnout.

    ---
    We Rock!
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: Timmy on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 09:05 PM GMT+5
    While I also love the more traditional forms of Town Meeting that are common in smaller towns (which would be quite difficult in a town the size of Brattleboro), having lived in Putney for 6 years I can tell you this:
    The romanticism of Town Meeting should be tempered with a bit of reality - what I found in Putney was that yes, the meeting was as democratic as you could possibly want, but only for those present at the time. In other words, every year the SAME 300 people or so were making the decisions of the town... WORKING people, who of course might run into trouble trying to take off on a Tuesday, were instantly disenfranchised by this method, and I saw year after year the ones making the important democratic decisions were the ones who could afford to adjust their schedules to participate in the middle of the week. It was the same folks, year after year.
    In our representative Town Meeting, I would argue that we have a MORE participatory form because individuals can step up, take the time to educate themselves and then participate as Town Meeting reps - and since it happens on Saturday, working class folks have at least a chance to participate, or more so than they would on a Tuesday.
    Of course it's not perfect - I support the recommendations of the Charter Review Commission to move town meeting to before the Selectboard election so that we're not presented with a budget that was formed by a previous selectboard. I also feel that voter turnout would be improved by voting, as is common in other countries, on Saturday or perhaps even Sunday. I'd like to also see more turnover in the town meeting reps, with broader economic classes represented.

    I just ask that people consider that it is not only the FORM of democratic participation that is important, but also the ACCESS to that forum which is provided for a broad range of the public.
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: annikee on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 09:24 PM GMT+5
    I'd love to see easier access made for the townfolk to make it to meetings in general, but certainly at RTM. Anyone can still go to TM, and speak their mind, but not all can vote. In a town this size, that wouldn't work. Of course, not everyone drives or even walks, so getting there is an issue. If the town bus ran free to TM and the Info Mtgs, would that help?
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 09:36 PM GMT+5
    ***In a town this size, that wouldn't work.***
    Oh, of course it would. I know Brattleboroians think they live in a major urban metropolis, but the truth is that there are quite a number of larger towns in Vermont that manage to have a real Town Meeting at which voters can speak and vote.

    ---
    We Rock!
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: annikee on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 11:22 PM GMT+5
    There are? Who?
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Friday, March 12 2010 @ 08:50 AM GMT+5
    Well, it would be easier to list the towns that have representative town meeting:

    1. Brattleboro





    ---
    We Rock!
    Can town meeting ever be representative?
    Authored by: pjmelton on Friday, March 12 2010 @ 09:18 AM GMT+5
    Bennington is larger than Brattleboro, and still has direct democracy - at least in theory. However, attendance is very low. Here is an interesting Banner editorial on the subject:

    http://www.benningtonbanner.com/opinion/ci_14501758

    ---
    "Economic laws are not made by nature. They are made by human beings." -- FDR

    Can town meeting ever be representative?
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Friday, March 12 2010 @ 02:35 PM GMT+5
    I think of "larger" Vermont towns (as opposed to "large towns," of which Vermont really has none) as those with a population higher than 5,000.

    Of those, there are three, Essex (18,500), Colchester (17,000), and Bennington (15,750) that have a higher population than Brattleboro and have a real Vermont Town Meeting (although some do vote on their budgets by Australian ballot.)

    Towns with populations between 10,000 and 7,000 are, in descending order, Hartford, Milton, Springfield, Middlebury, Williston, Barre (Town), St. J, and Shelbourne. All have a real Vermont Town Meeting.

    Vermont's cities (some of which are smaller than the towns) all have charters. Some have annual "City Meetings," such as Barre City, some have budgets decided by Australian Ballot, and some have no other representation beyond their alderman or city council.

    South Burlington has what may be the worst situation; their charter specifies that only budget increases greater than 10% or more need to go before the voters. I guess that's why you hear about South Burlington's 9% budget increases so often.

    Of the nearly 25 towns in New Hampshire that are larger than Brattleboro, eight have a Town Meeting form of government (as opposed to a council/manager form of government).

    While there are certainly some exceptions, most employers in Vermont understand the importance of citizen government and make allowances for people to take the time they need to go to Town Meeting. Towns that have concerns about people being able to take a work day to go to Town Meeting on Tuesday have the option of holding their Town Meeting on Monday night. Towns that have charters could hold their annual Town Meeting on almost any day, as long as it's compatible with their budget cycle and approved by the legislature.

    As for my replies to Tim, I should make it clear that my comments are in regard to the institution of representative Town Meeting (and Bratt's charter) not the representatives themselves, or what they do. I'm sure they're all fine people who do an excellent job.

    ---
    We Rock!
    Can town meeting ever be representative?
    Authored by: pjmelton on Friday, March 12 2010 @ 02:49 PM GMT+5
    I am pretty agnostic on this issue, but was intrigued by the Banner editorial.

    I think it is a shame that more people do not participate in direct-democracy town meeting when they have the choice to do so. Folks in larger towns appear to take it for granted. Hence the rhetorical question in the post title.

    I would tend to lean toward direct democracy regardless of attendance patterns; however, I do think that self-selected attendees would tend to be people with more flexibility and more at stake economically in the town business. In other words, the richer people.

    ---
    "Economic laws are not made by nature. They are made by human beings." -- FDR
    Can town meeting ever be representative?
    Authored by: annikee on Friday, March 12 2010 @ 07:03 PM GMT+5
    Then why the hell does Bratt have Rep TM?
    Can town meeting ever be representative?
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Friday, March 12 2010 @ 09:12 PM GMT+5
    Keeps the plebes from getting drunk on democracy and running amok.

    The charter seems designed to protect Bratt government from having to bend to the will of its citizens, and it will probably remain that way. I think the charter committee means well, but you can see how their approach has not been to make government more transparent, more accountable, or to ensure checks and balances. It has been to make government it more efficient, to make things easier for people in government, and to make things run smoothly. That's the "government should run like a business" approach, which is undemocratic - like business.

    ---
    We Rock!
    Can town meeting ever be representative?
    Authored by: annikee on Saturday, March 13 2010 @ 09:13 AM GMT+5
    Well, thanks for the eye-opener, Maus. I just thought that the larger towns had gone to Rep TM- not true.
    There is no reason for Rep TM in Brattleboro! It'll probably be the same 200-300 that always show up anyway, and I think we should go back to real democracy, for democracy's sake.
    Where is my damn motorized chair!!!?? I gotta get back out there.
    Can town meeting ever be representative?
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Tuesday, March 16 2010 @ 10:28 AM GMT+5
    Here's an interesting and timely (pun intended) tidbit from the past: In 1935, Brattleboro's bitter battle wasn't over trash, but over Daylight Saving Time. The town voted to adopt DST by a vote of 988 to 904.

    ---
    We Rock!
    DST
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Tuesday, March 16 2010 @ 10:46 AM GMT+5
    Daylight Savings Time, or DST, has been extended so far, like an old
    man pulling up his belt until it reaches his chin, that 'normal' time,
    i.e., non-daylight savings time, has been reduced to only a few
    months of the year. Now we don't turn the clocks back until early
    November, and we rush back into DST again before winter has
    officially ended. I think this may be the reason why the Academy
    Awards Ceremony got pushed up?

    I think DST is a waste of effort and time (no pun intended here
    either). Arizona is I think the only US state that refuses to comply
    with it, but I'd like to see a movement to eliminate it entirely, or at
    minimum move it back the way it was pre-1970's, when it began at
    the midnight on the last Sunday of April and ended at midnight on the
    last Sunday of October. Maybe even pushing the end of it to the first
    Sunday in October would be even better, if we can't eliminate it.

    A recent scientific study looks at how efficient DST is today, and finds
    it to not save anything, rather cause more INefficiency:
    http://www.physorg.com/news187946326.html
    Democracy inaction
    Authored by: pjmelton on Tuesday, March 16 2010 @ 11:02 AM GMT+5
    I move that if ANY of those 988 DST yea voters ever set foot in this town again, we arrest 'em! Let's put it to the people next March and see what they say!

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    "Economic laws are not made by nature. They are made by human beings." -- FDR
    Democracy inaction
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Tuesday, March 16 2010 @ 12:00 PM GMT+5
    I'd vote for permanent DST. There's nothing more depressing than the pitch-black darkness at 4 pm in December. And there's nothing better than late evening sunsets in summer.

    ---
    We Rock!
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 09:58 PM GMT+5
    I think representative town meeting is representative of Brattleboro's general disdain for voters and fear of citizen initiative.

    ---
    We Rock!
    16% should be asked their opinion
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Thursday, March 11 2010 @ 03:28 PM GMT+5
    "I too am willing to pay a bit extra to keep from having to buy special
    bags. No one's asked ME."

    I am assuming that, like me, you are one of the 16% who voted?
    Let's see...if the town population is 12,000, that would be 1,900
    people. However, there are minors in the population who cannot vote,
    and the population isn't exactly 12,000, so some range of say 1,900 to
    maybe 2,500 or so people would be the figure.

    So, how hard would it be for the Selectboard to ask 16% of the town
    voters if they agree or not? ; )
    I think a weekend or two on the phone, plus maybe a very targeted
    mailing questionnaire to those few voters might suffice. For those who
    feel left out, maybe they should have voted?
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: NancyG on Friday, March 12 2010 @ 06:58 PM GMT+5
    I am opposed to PAYT in Brattleboro at this time for the same reasons that so many articulate ibrattleboro folks have already expressed. PAYT with weekly recycling and community education is something I would consider. How can I get in touch with my town meeting reps to tell them how I feel? Are phone numbers or emails listed anyplace?
    Thanks, Nancy G
    Your Garbage And You... And Your Check Book
    Authored by: annikee on Friday, March 12 2010 @ 07:10 PM GMT+5
    I just stole this from one of Tim's comments:
    Info on Meeting reps:
    http://www.brattleboro.org/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={7CC26D9E-CDA3-42AB-A12E-666D61E35A7A}&DE={8C210C3F-1114-47EF-A326-42FAF582C427}
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    Brattleboro Events
    In the next 2 weeks

    Saturday 04-Feb
  • Some Like It Hot Open House
  • Living Memorial Park Ski Lift Open 10-4
  • Shir HeHarim Shabbat Services
  • Winter Farmers' Market
  • Introduction to Songwriting
  • Left on Pearl
  • Manner Effect featuring Sarah Elizabeth Charles

  • Sunday 05-Feb
  • 18th Annual Super Bowl Sunday Breakfast
  • Living Memorial Park Ski Lift Open 12-4
  • Reskilling: Planning the Garden and Seed Blessing
  • Piano Four Hands: Anna Polonsky and Orion Weiss

  • Monday 06-Feb
  • The Tea Party Movement, Republican Party & the 2012 Elections Thomas Thompson Trust Lecture by

  • Tuesday 07-Feb
  • Machine as Medium Exhibit by Zachary Parks

  • Wednesday 08-Feb
  • Brattleboro Community Conversations
  • Meg Mott speaks at Landmark College
  • Transition Putney - Tools for Holistic Living community

  • Thursday 09-Feb
  • Transition Putney - Putney Jobs Breakfast
  • Southern Vermont Scrabble Club
  • Artist ala Mode
  • Marina Open Mic w/ Kevin Parry
  • WSWMD Board of Supervisors
  • The Mabel Story - 7:30pm

  • Friday 10-Feb
  • Cardy Raper "Love, Sex, & Mushrooms: Adventures of a Woman in Science"
  • Shall We Dance, Brattleboro Ballroom
  • Darol Anger, Brittany Haas, Lissa Schneckenburger
  • The Mabel Story - 7:30pm

  • Saturday 11-Feb
  • Winter Farmers' Market
  • Valentine Card Workshop
  • Winter Songs: Opera, Art Song & More
  • Vermont Jazz Center presents The Tia Fuller Quartet

  • Sunday 12-Feb
  • Paintings - David Rohn Exhibit
  • Music for a Sunday Afternoon Concert by Matan Rubinstein

  • Monday 13-Feb
  • Neither Wolf Nor Dog Talk by Kent Nerburn
  • Reel Queer Movie Nights: Small Town Gay Bar

  • Tuesday 14-Feb
  • Singing Valentines by Brattleboro Women's Chorus
  • Flamenco at Luna Azul Valentine´s Day
  • Sweetheart's Snowshoe at BEEC
  • Phantom Limb Company-69 Degrees South

  • Wednesday 15-Feb
  • Allan Stewart Konigsberg's (Woody Allen )Winter Film Festival: Sleeper

  • Thursday 16-Feb
  • Marina Open Mic w/ Kevin Parry
  • The Beloved Community in Action Talk by James Kates

  • Brattleboro Weekly Poll
    Not much snow this January. I'm guessing February will end up
    warm and spring-like; birds return and flowers bloom
    cold, but not snowy
    cold, and very snowy
    a slushy winter mix of rain and snow
    mild with little snow
    with a record snowfall on the books
    as mud season
    other
    Results
    71 votes | 1 comments