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    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye    
    Tuesday, August 31 2010 @ 03:43 AM GMT+5
    Contributed by: Tad Montgomery

    Town Plan

    Crosswalk across Main Street between the library and Brattleboro Savings & Loan

    It's true, the state of Vermont has decided that because this crosswalk is not wheelchair accessible, it's to be removed in the final stage of the Route 5 construction, despite the fact that there is an ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act) compliant crosswalk about 50 feet further north. Below is a message to this effect from Jerry Carbone in this week's missive from Brooks Memorial Library:


    "Town Manager Barbara Sondag informed me last week that the crosswalk at Main Street directly in front of the Library will be eliminated by the State of Vermont. This will occur when the Main Street work is complete. According to Vermont Agency of Transportation engineers Chris Barker and Jon Kaplan, all crosswalks must be accessible as per ADA Title 2. This particular one is not since it begins/ends with a set of stairs. Patrons are advised to use the accessible cross walk at the intersection of Walnut St. and Main. "

    I called Steve Barrett to inquire about the logic behind this matter, and had a very interesting discussion with him about the decision, which was out of his control. It seems that the whole thing hinges on the federal government's mandate to make every publicly funded facility accessible to all. This is a noble and important goal in my mind, and I am proud to live in a country that leads the world in accessibility issues. But why should walking people be penalized in a manner that creates absolutely no benefit to folks in wheelchairs? I have visions of people using that 'walk' to cross Main Street anyway, despite the absence of a crosswalk, children perhaps, trying to get to the library, and causing traffic and safety problems.

    The following is from John Kaplan, Bicycle & Pedestrian Program Manager for VTrans:

    "Crosswalks MUST be accessible and stairs are clearly not accessible. We (and any public body) have a duty under Title 2 of the ADA to ensure that all of our programs, services, etc. are accessible to all. The town should not be putting this crosswalk in either." I am hoping that Mr, Kaplan does not think that this is a new, proposed crosswalk, as his terminology suggests.

    So I'd like to take Mr. Kaplan and the federal government's argument a little further. The two-story library beyond this crosswalk is publicly funded. It's also ADA compliant through the use of ramps, accessible bathrooms and an elevator. But there are stairs in the library that are not accessible. Should these stairs be removed because the library may not spend public funds cleaning or maintaining a structure that is not accessible to all? Who will then pay for the increased energy use of operating the elevator, wear and tear expenses, etc?

    I would very much appreciate hearing from people familiar with accessibility issues why the removal of this crosswalk makes any sense at all. Does this removal benefit anyone? It is one of the nicest crosswalks in Brattleboro, passing through that flowered island. If I have prejudices here that I am unaware of, I hope to be enlightened. If, on the other hand, there is no argument from people who can speak for the wheelchair-using community, why could this crosswalk not be grandfathered in, and the crosswalk lines painted by the town instead of the state?

    -----

    NOTE: There are additional issues of crosswalk signage and the need for open space/visibility on either side of all crosswalks, etc. but these issues are irrelevant to the major point here.

     

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  • Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye | 48 comments | Create New Account
    The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they may say.
    Poor Reasoning
    Authored by: Floyd on Tuesday, August 31 2010 @ 09:41 AM GMT+5

    Ridiculous! I am not usually one to jump on the
    condemning & blaming government regulations for
    every sort of concocted social ill, but in this instance
    it is truly stupid.

    I had seen that the crosswalk is painted with the
    words "tops soil" which made me wonder why they
    would contemplate moving or eliminating this
    crosswalk. I hoped there would be a good reason.

    The sight lines at the corner in front Subway (Walnut
    St.) are pretty bad as there are usually cars parked
    there and a light pole that blocks drivers view until
    they are quite close to you the crossing pedestrian.
    You just have to try and semi confidently start
    walking and HOPE that the driver will see you in time
    and stop. I wouldn't want to use that crosswalk with
    my young son if I saw any cars approaching.

    I predict that some folks will continue to cross at that
    spot even after the crosswalk has been removed. I
    may do it myself.



    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye
    Authored by: cgrotke on Tuesday, August 31 2010 @ 11:04 AM GMT+5
    Those stairs help drivers get to their parked cars, too.

    I can see an argument for not building new crosswalks with
    stairs in them, but this does seem to be a special case. Those
    stairs make it easy for people to run to the bank to get
    money to pay their late book fines!

    That crosswalk is also prettier than the one at the corner.
    Better plantings, more shade...
    yeah, and Putney Rd bike lanes, too!
    Authored by: ed on Tuesday, August 31 2010 @ 11:36 AM GMT+5
    Better to move it down the street a bit, where the sidewalk is
    lower, than to eliminate it all together. People will definitely
    still cross over tho the library.

    And while I'm at it, what's the rationale behind the "suicide
    bike lanes" on Putney Rd?

    If these aren't changed before the state's finished, it could be
    years to get them fixed.
    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Tuesday, August 31 2010 @ 11:40 AM GMT+5
    Hopefully, the state will completely erase Brattleboro's historic downtown so that everything will be in compliance with 21st century planning practices. No exceptions. Nothing grandfathered!

    ---
    Slán abhaile
    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye
    Authored by: KM on Tuesday, August 31 2010 @ 12:06 PM GMT+5
    Do you want to take a guess how many sidewalk ramps would have been built in this country if 30 years ago the ADA had exemptions for the "preference of the able-bodied"? The state is expending considerable money upgrading the ramps to meet ADA as they do with all their projects. Very few agencies would spend this money if they weren't being forced to do so (by the ADA).

    Tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the feds are insisting that chain link fence be installed here. The project just can't paint a crosswalk if you don't have accessible access points on both ends. I for one fully support the strides made over the last 30 years to make the public spaces of this country as accessible as possible for all users.
    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye
    Authored by: Floyd on Tuesday, August 31 2010 @ 05:15 PM GMT+5

    >Tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the feds are
    insisting that chain link fence be installed here.<


    They are pulling up the sidewalk on the island and
    planting grass in
    its place so they are going out of their way and
    spending our tax money to tear out a functional
    crosswalk.
    Hello Harrison Bergeron
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Tuesday, August 31 2010 @ 05:38 PM GMT+5
    But you completely miss the point. Of course anything built or improved now should be brought up to ADA standards. The improved access afforded by ADA regulations has touched virtually every family in the United States.

    This doesn't do that. This improves access for no one. It is an example of bureacracy gone mad.

    ---
    Slán abhaile
    Hello Harrison Bergeron
    Authored by: annikee on Tuesday, August 31 2010 @ 06:58 PM GMT+5
    That's it, in a nutshell. There is nothing wrong with that crosswalk except that it makes traffic stop twice in a relatively small area. That's why. It's nothing to do with ability or disability.

    ---
    How many apple places is there country in the old person?
    Hello Harrison Bergeron (I love Wikipedia!)
    Authored by: paulgardner on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 06:36 AM GMT+5
    Great Vonnegut reference by maus - I had to go to the wiki to get it though. I missed this one back when I was reading everything Vonnegut I could get my hands on.

    I have mixed feelings about this.
    On the one hand, this crosswalk has always scared the hell out of me. I was convinced that a child would be killed there because of the plantings - the one shrub in particular screening drivers. Why petunias wouldn't have been enough I don't know. I always slow down heading south out of the triangle there (probably a good thing in itself).
    On the other, it's the busiest crosswalk in town that's not at a light. It's absence will be a pain in the butt. And as Floyd rightly points out, the alternative is a pedestrian killer too.
    All of our crosswalks are a challenge for drivers, but for out of towners way worse.
    If you're teaching a teen to drive, make sure they know where all the crosswalks are and be sure to look for pedestrians and stop for them.
    Hello Harrison Bergeron (I love Wikipedia!)
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 08:05 AM GMT+5
    Harrison Bergeron was the first KV story I ever read - assigned by some subversive freshman English Lit. teacher. I wish I could remember her name. In hindsight, she was teaching so much more than English Lit.

    ---
    Slán abhaile
    Hello Harrison Bergeron (I love Wikipedia!)
    Authored by: paulgardner on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 09:00 AM GMT+5
    True for me too and I noted happily also true with my recent BUHS grad daughter.
    Hello Harrison Bergeron (I love Wikipedia!)
    Authored by: annikee on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 12:13 PM GMT+5
    Okay, true for me too. I can't remember her name either. She was just starting teaching when I was frosh. We read Clockwork Orange, too.
    That's weird, though, 3 of us. Anyone else?

    ---
    How many apple places is there country in the old person?
    Hello Harrison Bergeron (I love Vonnegut!)
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 01:00 PM GMT+5
    And look at us today. A bunch of pinkos.

    ---
    Slán abhaile
    Hello Harrison Bergeron (I love Vonnegut!)
    Authored by: pjmelton on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 03:36 PM GMT+5
    You guys were very advanced. We did Slaughterhouse-Five as seniors, and only in AP English in the unit on satire. That's the only Vonnegut I've ever read. Also in that unit, another great hyphenated work of satire, Catch-22. This sounds like it could be out of that book too.

    Reading Vonnegut as freshman must be a liberal elitist thing. I went to Catholic school in Ohio, and the AP teacher was (gasp!) an Episcopalian. From Worcester, Mass. Which just goes to show.

    If I were going to read one more Vonnegut novel in my life, which one should it be?

    ---
    "For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. " -- Steven Wright
    Cat's Cradle
    Authored by: Lise on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 04:30 PM GMT+5
    This is so off-topic but -- we got no Vonnegut in my public
    high school in Baltimore (despite being in the honors program
    -- we read incredibly boring stuff...). But on my own, I read
    a bunch of Vonnegut, my favorite of which is the short but
    fascinating Cat's Cradle. Can't remember much about it
    except that I really liked it.
    Hello Harrison Bergeron (I love Vonnegut!)
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 04:55 PM GMT+5
    ONE more? I would read Breakfast of Champions, I guess, but I don't know what to recommend to someone else. It's like asking what vegetable you should eat if you were only gong to eat one more vegetable for the rest of your life. Eat as many as you can!

    ---
    Slán abhaile
    One vegetable to rule them all
    Authored by: pjmelton on Thursday, September 02 2010 @ 10:23 AM GMT+5
    Well, duh. Broccoli, of course.

    ---
    "For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. " -- Steven Wright
    Hello Harrison Bergeron (I love Vonnegut!)
    Authored by: annikee on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 06:02 PM GMT+5
    Education breeds pinkos? That's why they call us names, just like schoolyard brats.

    Yeah, BoC is my fave, but each is its own whole.

    My school was a private Roman Catholic/Lutheran experiment. Based on Summerhill, in England. We had Franciscan nuns and priests and lay teachers, even a couple Rhodes scholars.



    ---
    How many apple places is there country in the old person?
    Hello Harrison Bergeron (I love Vonnegut!)
    Authored by: paulgardner on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 06:43 PM GMT+5
    I didn't mean that I (or my daughter) had KV assigned here at good ol' BUHS.

    But that doesn't mean Eng Lit wasn't mind broadening - it was. We read Dostoevsky (Crime & Punishment), Kipling (Kim), Salinger (Catcher in the Rye) and Dickens (Great Expectations). I would never have read any of these otherwise and I'm really glad that I did. Lit is not my thing, but I value what it does and I did got on a Steinbeck and Dickens tear after reading Great Expectations (these books deepened and strengthened my liberal leanings) and eventually tried Vonnegut and later Tom Robbins - largely because of Eng Lit at BUHS.
    Liberal education in early schooling
    Authored by: pjmelton on Thursday, September 02 2010 @ 08:21 AM GMT+5
    Despite many English teachers' attempts to the contrary, the main point of literature is to teach people how to be empathetic and thoughtful. I think that gets lost in the shuffle, because if you try tell that to bureaucrats, your programs get cut. If you want to have a classroom instead of and after-school club, you have to appear to be punishing the children rather than teaching them how to be thinking humans.

    ---
    "For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. " -- Steven Wright
    Hello Harrison Bergeron (I love Vonnegut!)
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 08:38 PM GMT+5
    Well, I was thinking more along the lines that Vonnegut breeds pinkos.

    ---
    Slán abhaile
    Hello Harrison Bergeron (I love Wikipedia!)
    Authored by: cgrotke on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 03:53 PM GMT+5
    You guys got to read in high school? In Florida they didn't
    want us to.

    We did get assigned a few terrible novels (The Chocolate
    Wars - c'mon) and had open-book tests with questions
    such as "When was this book published." I recall asking if
    we could write some papers in senior English to, y'know,
    prepare for college? I was told that we had already written
    our 20 page paper in 11th grade English. We had. Couldn't
    argue with that!

    We also didn't have many sidewalks or crosswalks there,
    except in the oldest parts of town.
    Hello Harrison Bergeron (I love Wikipedia!)
    Authored by: annikee on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 06:06 PM GMT+5
    Wow, that's an education system that really sucks. Explains a lot about Fla., though.

    ---
    How many apple places is there country in the old person?
    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye
    Authored by: babalu on Tuesday, August 31 2010 @ 01:50 PM GMT+5
    I haven't been on that sidewalk in ages, but doesn't the stairway lead right into the road? Seems to me if they won't or can't leave the crosswalk where it is (and where it's been for ages), then people will just cross there out of habit.
    I sometimes still put my blinker on to make the turn onto Park Place from Putney Road. Habits won't just end with the absence of the white lines for the crosswalk - they're barely visible for most of the year, anyway.
    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye
    Authored by: pjmelton on Tuesday, August 31 2010 @ 04:24 PM GMT+5
    The presence of this crosswalk slows traffic down on Main St. It is very visible and safe. I am NOT in favor of removing crosswalks that work! Especially the kind that go to libraries!

    It is a shame that the crosswalk does not work for everyone, and generally I think ADA compliance is crucial. However, removing a really important crosswalk merely because not everyone can use it seems beyond absurd.

    People will continue to use it, but it won't actually be there anymore, and it will be far less safe. Hopefully they plan to improve the one slightly north that involves a ramp, because that one is truly scary.

    ---
    "The whole shadow of Man is only as big as his hat. " -- Elizabeth Bishop
    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye
    Authored by: babalu on Tuesday, August 31 2010 @ 04:32 PM GMT+5
    If they kill that crosswalk, won't they have to remove the stairway, too? Or is that up to the Town? Either way, how can they just leave a set of stairs dumping into the roadway, if the issue is the ADA?

    Just asking the question so I can make a point of cost; if they had to remove the stairway, how much more would it cost to make it ADA approved instead?

    It's too bad. As you've stated; it's a safe crossing and as someone else pointed out, a pleasing area to cross into and over.
    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye
    Authored by: pleasant on Saturday, September 25 2010 @ 05:37 PM GMT+5
    "I sometimes still put my blinker on to make the turn onto Park Place from Putney Road."

    I know several people who have been pulled over for not turning their blinker on from Putney Rd to Park Place. Mostly the cops are probably trying to find drunk drivers, but they will tell you that you could be pulling into the Elks.
    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Tuesday, August 31 2010 @ 07:47 PM GMT+5
    Wow. What a dumb cookie cutter approach to planning!

    The One and Only Brattleboro!
    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye
    Authored by: Wantastiquet on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 10:52 AM GMT+5
    They should at least place a plaque or medallion in the island in the middle of the street stating once upon a time a crosswalk that was loved by the community existed in this spot.
    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye
    Authored by: KM on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 11:47 AM GMT+5
    The ADA is as rigid as it is due to the cost involved with making the society truely accessible. Allowing easy exemption to Brattleboro (because we like it) would have allowed every public entity everywhere to have had exemptions for the past 30 years. How many ramps do you think would have been built if the ADA was swiss cheese? With this specific crossing, one problem is that a person with accessibility issues could enter the CW from the east side expecting it to be accessible. They may end up getting over to the west side before they see that they can't proceed. CWs are more than just indications to drivers and able bodied pedestrians. They are indications to the persons with accessibility issues that it is place that they can cross. There are some places where full complaince can't be acheived, but a crossing is a neccesity. But this location is a mid-block crossing (dangerous) with nearby crossings that will be accessible. All I'm trying to say is that this isn't necessarily blind beauracracy at work. I can see the rationale behind what is being done.
    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye
    Authored by: cgrotke on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 01:32 PM GMT+5
    I don't hear people wanting an exemption due to us being
    Brattleboro...

    .. what I hear is that people see that there are multiple.
    accessible alternative ways to reach both sides of the
    street. A person on wheels could use them, easily. It is
    not the sole means of access.

    The crosswalk in question, if I read this correctly, is
    viewed as a bonus (and useful, well-liked) crosswalk for
    those who can use it.

    The only problem I could imagine was the one you
    describe - someone on the other side thinking that they
    could make it across then realizing they couldn't. This,
    however, could be fixed with a simple sign that points
    wheelchair and scooter users to one of the other two
    options for that block.

    It does raise an interesting question about how much of
    the world we can make accessible, and how much should
    be "denied" to people who don't require it.

    Should we aim to level our hills, since some have trouble
    climbing them? Drain our rivers, as some cannot swim?
    Should we forbid parades, since some cannot see them? If
    we were being fair we might, but if we are being
    reasonable, we typically look for other ways to mediate
    the situation.

    The ADA guidelines are good ones, and you can see the
    benefits when people who otherwise wouldn't be able to
    visit have easy access. Many of the ADA improvements
    help all of us, too. I've used ramps and have appreciated
    gradual inclines rather than stairs on many occasions. The
    world is safer, it is hard to deny.

    This single crosswalk, to me, qualifies for ADA as
    government funds are being used, but at the same time
    seems a bit extreme, given all the other ways to safely
    cross the street.

    The ADA is great for opening up access when there is
    none, but when there is existing access, I think it is fair to
    ask if this single example is overkill.
    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye
    Authored by: annikee on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 06:08 PM GMT+5
    I'm a wheelie, and ya know, not far down the street, not even 20 feet, the sidewalk is level and you can get on the curb. There is no good reason to take this crosswalk away.

    ---
    How many apple places is there country in the old person?
    Let's Do Something
    Authored by: Tad Montgomery on Wednesday, September 01 2010 @ 12:04 PM GMT+5
    For anyone wanting to complain to the regulatory office in charge of making these kinds of statutes, contact Scott Windley, the prime technical person for Public Rights of Way standards, at:
    http://www.access-board.gov/
    Let's Do Something
    Authored by: pjmelton on Thursday, September 02 2010 @ 09:11 AM GMT+5
    Thank you. I wrote to Jon Kaplan to find out if the decision makers realize this is an established crosswalk rather than a new one, but he has not replied.

    ---
    "For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. " -- Steven Wright
    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Thursday, September 02 2010 @ 04:20 PM GMT+5
    I think Brattleboro needs to expand its historic district. And I hate to say it, but I think Brattleboro needs to institute some kind of design control zoning so that there will be some kind of guideline and review for these projects.

    I don't know if people realize how much the face of Brattleboro has changed just over the last 10 years. And much more over the last 20 years. Some of the changes are for the better - too many are not. Brattleboro is losing its character piece by piece.

    I have to admit that never paid much attention to the traffic lights in the downtown area, for instance, until I learned that they would be removed. Now, I can see how unusual & old fashioned they are. How they blend visually with the historic background of the town.
    It's a real shame to lose something like that. I understand that, for one reason or another, the town may be forced to change them. But if there was a historic design review process, at least the town would have some criteria to follow in selecting replacements - whether the town wants exact replicas or modern facsimiles.

    This wacky crosswalk that ends (or begins) with a set of stairs is part of that Brattleboro character, too, and once you lose it, it's gone forever. Bit by bit the town will begin to blend with the ruralburbia that's coming at us from the east and the south.

    One of the exceptions there is to ADA is for historic places, and for good reason. While we all want to make sure everyone can experience all of our historic places and national monuments, it simply does not always make sense from a preservation standpoint to alter a historic structure or place when doing so will destroy the very history to which you're attempting to provide access.

    Sure, this crosswalk is no civil war relic (is it?) but it is one more little speck of Brattleboro's character that will be gone.

    I think KM makes some excellent points - particularly about the danger of someone not knowing that the crosswalk isn't handicap accessible and getting "caught" with no safe place to go. But I find it hard to believe that there is no other solution but to tear the crosswalk out.

    ---
    Slán abhaile
    Response from Jon Kaplan
    Authored by: pjmelton on Wednesday, September 22 2010 @ 07:04 AM GMT+5
    Now that the crosswalk has already been destroyed, I received the following reply.



    I certainly understand the feelings about the crosswalk by the library. However, under Title II of the ADA, the state is obliged to bring any non-conforming features that are within the scope of a project (in this case, the paving project) into compliance with the ADA. A marked crosswalk is a facility open to the public and therefore must be open and usable by all members of the public, regardless of disability (this is, in essence, the mandate of the ADA). A crosswalk that leads to stairs on one side is not usable by people who are using a mobility device such as a wheelchair. The only alternative would have been to create a ramp where the stairs are located, but my understanding is that this would have been difficult and beyond the scope of the paving project. Even though there is an accessible crosswalk nearby, there are no waivers from ADA. I checked with staff at the US Access Board about this situation and they concurred with my opinion. See their response below. I know this is not the answer you were looking for, but we are bound to provide public facilities that are accessible to all.



    As for the crosswalk question, I hope this location has been put on their transition plan so that the crosswalk can be restored in future. The DOJ regulation for title II views resurfacing as an alteration that requires the addition of curb ramps. So if it's at all feasible, I believe the jurisdiction would be expected to schedule this location for a program access improvement under their transition plan if it can't be accomplished as part of the resurfacing/upgrade contract. I don't know the particulars of the site you refer to, so can't speculate about how to do it technically, but certainly the obligation to do it is in title II, existing facilities at 35.150.

    *******************************************************

    Jon Kaplan, P.E.
    Bicycle and Pedestrian Program Manager
    Local Transportation Facilities
    VT Agency of Transportation
    1 National Life Drive
    Montpelier, VT 05633-5001
    Ph: 802.828.0059
    Fax: 802.828.5712

    VTrans Bicycle and Pedestrian Publications
    http://www.aot.state.vt.us/progdev/Sections/LTF/BikePedProgram.htm

    VT Safe Routes to School Web site
    http://www.aot.state.vt.us/progdev/Sections/LTF/SRTS/VTSRTS.htm





    Here is my e-mail to him:

    Dear Jon,

    It is my understanding that one of the most useful and most used
    crosswalks on Brattleboro's Main Street is about to be destroyed
    because it is not ADA compliant. Many of us are completely baffled by
    this decision, and would like an explanation.

    I learned about this on ibrattleboro (link here: http://www.ibrattleboro.com/article.php/20100831044342868)
    , a citizen news site, where you are quoted as saying, "The town
    should not be putting this crosswalk in...."

    Many of us are wondering if the decision makers realize that this is a
    long-established crosswalk, and not something the town is proposing to
    build now. Surely the cost of taking the crosswalk out of commission
    exceeds the cost of "maintenance," which presumably involves nothing
    more than painting new lines every year or two. (The median there is
    maintained through donations from Brattleboro Savings & Loan.)

    We are also wondering if the accessible crosswalk to the north will
    undergo safety improvements. Right now, that crosswalk is seldom used
    due to visibility problems. I do not consider it safe for able-bodied
    adults who want to go to the library, let alone people in wheelchairs,
    or children.

    Thanks for reading, and I hope you will clarify so that I can post
    your reply on ibrattleboro. You can also register there and post a
    reply of your own, if desired. Thanks!

    Paula Melton
    Brattleboro pedestrian and library patron
    A ramp isn't a ramp?
    Authored by: cgrotke on Wednesday, September 22 2010 @ 02:51 PM GMT+5
    "the crosswalk can be restored in future"

    Interesting. Thanks for following up on this. I was just
    noticing today that the curb has been put in at the median.

    I still wonder why the existing ramp doesn't qualify as a
    ramp.
    Still in use
    Authored by: Floyd on Wednesday, September 22 2010 @ 03:01 PM GMT+5
    Despite the sidewalk being removed on the island (and
    currently replaced with dirt) and made more dangerous
    with granite curbs being put in place of the crosswalk, I
    noticed multiple people continuing to use the crosswalk
    and I did twice today myself.

    The caution tape has been torn away and folks are
    continuing to use the crosswalk as they have for
    decades.
    A ramp isn't a ramp?
    Authored by: pjmelton on Thursday, September 23 2010 @ 05:48 AM GMT+5
    I am sad about the crosswalk. I feel that if we had known about it earlier, we would have been able to save it - perhaps even raise funds to make it ADA compliant.

    I wish people wouldn't use it, though. It isn't safe anymore, and someone is going to get hurt.
    A ramp isn't a ramp?
    Authored by: Maus Anon E on Thursday, September 23 2010 @ 07:25 AM GMT+5
    With a can of quick-drying white paint and a 6-inch roller, one could "restore" the crosswalk in an act of civiil disobedience.

    ---
    Slán abhaile
    paint
    Authored by: pjmelton on Thursday, September 23 2010 @ 08:32 AM GMT+5
    Actually, the paint is still there. They have taken down the signs marking the crosswalk and have placed granite curbs around the median where the sidewalk used to be, to make the little garden go all the way through.

    As a driver, I still watch for pedestrians there instinctively. Not everyone will.
    A ramp isn't a ramp?
    Authored by: cgrotke on Thursday, September 23 2010 @ 10:40 AM GMT+5
    Imagine building the Lincoln Memorial today. Sorry, no steps.
    Gov't money being used.

    It would make for interesting marches on Washington, with
    everyone sliding down the front of the building.

    Again I ask, why isn't the existing ramp to solve the step
    problem enough to solve the step problem? There are
    multiple accessible ways to reach that side of the street and
    to enter the library without any changes at all.
    A ramp isn't a ramp?
    Authored by: Truman on Thursday, September 23 2010 @ 02:28 PM GMT+5
    because in its desire to make things accessible to ALL, the ADA does not care that there is another crosswalk nearby. It does not care that there is a ramp nearby.

    That crosswalk did not end in an accessible location and that's it. End of story. Unless you could make a negotiable ramp directly at the end of those white lines, the crosswalk had to go.

    I've always thought it was pretty cool--but you know what? I've almost hit a couple of small children who've popped out of it unexpectedly too.
    A ramp isn't a ramp?
    Authored by: cgrotke on Thursday, September 23 2010 @ 02:51 PM GMT+5
    Maybe the safest thing to do is get rid of those paved
    passageways for motor vehicles that cross the walking paths.

    Roads, I think they are called.

    No cars, no one gets hurt.
    A ramp isn't a ramp?
    Authored by: pjmelton on Thursday, September 23 2010 @ 03:05 PM GMT+5
    Best idea I've heard all day.
    A ramp isn't a ramp?
    Authored by: Tad Montgomery on Friday, September 24 2010 @ 06:11 PM GMT+5
    That is a real problem, but could be easily resolved by removing half of a car parking space, or so, on the approach side of each lane. That would give drivers more time to see people approaching or in the crosswalk.
    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye
    Authored by: javanyet on Friday, September 24 2010 @ 08:17 AM GMT+5
    This is related though a bit off topic...

    What does anyone have to do to get the town to stop planting tall, vision-obstructing foliage on the traffic islands? Can't see who's coming up Main St when you're pulling around the left hand turn to go up Putney Road, can't see who's navigating the roundabout until they're right next to you. Traffic islands are there to direct traffic, not hide drivers from each other!

    Oh, and on-topic, I agree it's stupid to remove a crosswalk because it's non-compliant. "Bad crosswalk, go away!" As has been noted, that does not make things any easier for people who need a compliant crosswalk.

    I know, let's brick up all the downtown business entrances that are ADA non-compliant! Of course that is a wildly extreme comparison, but you get the idea.

    ---
    Kiss This Crosswalk Goodbye
    Authored by: babalu on Saturday, September 25 2010 @ 07:13 PM GMT+5
    I agree completely with the foliage gripe - it's not easy to see and especially on Western ave, getting onto 91 means I'm practically in the lane of oncoming traffic before I can see if the coast is clear to cross the lane.

    And back on topic; I don't see where it would be a huge cost factor to just make that crosswalk compliant (?). There are stairs there now, but that actually isn't part of the crosswalk, is it? It's access to the sidewalk that lies above that seems to be the issue. Seems it would cost just as much to tear out the stairs as to make the accommodation, no?

    Here in West B. we've got a crosswalk that just dumps folks onto the side of the road; there is a sidewalk on one side only. If I use the same logic, then looks like we need to make the ditch here in West B. handicapped accessible; or is it OK to steer a wheelchair on the roadway (like a bike)?.
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