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    Perspective on Death    
    Friday, September 03 2010 @ 08:42 AM GMT+5
    Contributed by: Anonymous

    SpiritualIn the last couple of days, I was dreadfully ill. Apparently an intense stomach virus. I filled up the toilet bowl with projectile vomiting, etc. Anyway this led me to think that I might be dying, or rather to meditate on what it would be like if I were actually dying. I had a chance to see how I felt about that.

    It seemed to me pleasant, just irresponsibly so. Like knowing you were going to fall into a deep, satisfying sleep and looking forward to it. Relief from all one's cares and woes ("slings and arrows of outrageous fortune").

    As a teenager and before, I used to meditate with a kind of horror on the absence of my existence (the No of Me) that would be my status or non-status after being dead. There was something awful, unspeakable, about my no longer being, the total end of consciousness and existence of moi (leaving aside theories of heaven, reincarnation, soul, inextinguishable energy, past and future lives, and the like). Now it's more like: what's the problem?

    Generally speaking, there are two problems that I see about dying, one trivial and one more important. There is also a third possible problem that might affect certain others but doesn't affect me much. The trivial matter is the pain and suffering that is likely to accompany the process of dying. This is trivial for two reasons: one, in modern medicine (we hope) pain will be well managed, and two, the pain and suffering of dying will make one happier to die. The important matter is that one is leaving all one's unresolved problems and obligations to society (in my case, debts, for instance) and just piles of stuff to others, to one's dear ones in fact. That is obnoxious and unfair to do. In other words, while the departure from one's own woes may be experienced as a "consummation devoutly to be wished" and a pure relief, it is at the same time a passing off of one's woes to others. To pass that load of displeasure and discomfort, largely of one's own making, on to others who have their own problems to deal with, seems selfish and inconsiderate, to say the least.

    The third problem that I can see, but not so much one for me, is the problem of "unfinished business." I can well understand that someone may have a lifelong project, let's say, that they are hanging on to complete, whether realistically or not (if only to get back at one's enemies). For me there is no such thing in any concrete sense, so that is not a problem.

     

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  • Perspective on Death | 26 comments | Create New Account
    The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. This site is not responsible for what they may say.
    Perspective on Death
    Authored by: Homey on Friday, September 03 2010 @ 10:14 AM GMT+5
    Actually this is not by anonymous. This is by me.
    Perspective on Death
    Authored by: vtstream on Friday, September 03 2010 @ 11:09 AM GMT+5
    Obviously, we all must die. Your observation that there may be "unfinished business" that could effects others negatively is an unnecessarily negative view of what you might leave. What about the positive things that you could do for others while still alive that might add positively to their lives after you are gone?
    I can think of many things that might fall under this category ranging from good memories to knowledge to artistic achievements to monetary wealth.

    Certainly, one's focus can shift from that of Self to that of Others. Your view that "There is also a third possible problem that might effect certain others but doesn't affect me much" indicates that your concern is with Yourself rather than with Others and that is what I see as the problem with dying.
    Perspective on Death
    Authored by: Homey on Friday, September 03 2010 @ 06:02 PM GMT+5
    vtstream, my reference to "unfinished business" was that
    there are some people I have known or know of who were
    unhappy to die because they had major incomplete
    projects or goals they were working on. I don't have that
    situation, as far as I know, except perhaps in a spiritual
    sense.

    I don't think I said that one does not leave positive traces
    behind that may be of good use to others. What I said is I
    regret that unless one is wealthy, one will leave behind
    quite a few nuisances and costs to one's heirs or closest
    relatives. That is unfortunate and sort of inconsiderate.

    My statement that the aspect of unfinished business
    affects certain others more than myself had nothing to do
    with selfishness. In fact the selfishness comes into it when
    one finds it so easy to leave one's problems behind and let
    others deal with it. That kind of selfishness, a
    willingness to "shuffle off this mortal coil" and leave all
    my problems behind to whomever, is the one I may blame
    myself for.
    Perspective on Death
    Authored by: pjmelton on Friday, September 03 2010 @ 12:29 PM GMT+5
    Oddly, I was much more at peace with the idea of dying when I was young.

    Now, I have major Unfinished Business: I am a mother. I have discovered that I'm much more attached to this life now. And it's not merely for their sake; I want to see them grow up, and maybe have children of their own so I can find out if I remember all the words to Where the Wild Things Are 30 years from now.

    I think my attitude is healthier than it used to be, but it is also more uncomfortable. It was much simpler to be in this world but not of it.

    On the other hand, I think now that I am more of the world and not just in it, I am a more compassionate and likable person.

    ---
    "For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. " -- Steven Wright
    Perspective on Death
    Authored by: Homey on Friday, September 03 2010 @ 06:06 PM GMT+5
    pjmelton, everything you say makes sense.
    I have been through the cycle and once one's children
    have graduated from college and had any children they are
    going to have of their own, which is where I am at, maybe
    one starts to let that go a bit. One's work is done.

    But I completely agree that I would never have abandoned
    my children in their developmental phase. Children need
    at least one loving and consistent parent, hopefully two.
    So while they are growing up is definitely not a good time
    to leave.
    Prostration Before the Porcelain Bowl
    Authored by: Mr. Buddy Love on Saturday, September 04 2010 @ 10:49 AM GMT+5
    "In the last couple of days, I was dreadfully ill. Apparently
    an intense stomach virus."

    Actually, you could have had food poisoning. Sometimes
    you can get it from home food preparation, but often it
    comes from a restaurant. If you ate at a restaurant prior
    to your porcelain prostration event, you might want to
    give them a call and let the manager or owner know. Or
    the health inspector. I once had food poisoning and it was
    one of the most intensely painful experiences in my life! I
    was bowing down to the porcelain god all that first night,
    then sick as a dog spelled backwards for several days
    afterward.
    Prostration Before the Porcelain Bowl
    Authored by: Homey on Sunday, September 05 2010 @ 01:02 PM GMT+5
    Buddy,

    Actually I did eat in a Brattleboro restaurant the day
    before the porcelain encounter. I had a young man with
    me whom I am tutoring. He did not like his dish much and
    we exchanged. So we both ate all the same food.
    He did not get sick.
    On the other hand, he could have been carrying microbes
    that transferred to me when I ate his food.
    That's my guess.
    Also I believe food poisoning would come in a few hours,
    not the next day (approx. 18 hours later).
    Perspective on Death
    Authored by: cgrotke on Tuesday, September 07 2010 @ 10:59 AM GMT+5
    I was watching the first few episodes of the Garry
    Shandling Show, a great sitcom from the mid-1980's.

    One episode begins with Garry hosting a surprise party for
    his mother. He has all his friends over, ready to hide and
    pop up, and even runs the studio audience through it one
    time. Everyone is going to yell surprise.

    His mom is coming, so they turn off the lights and hide.
    When she walks in, the lights go on, everyone yells
    "surprise!", and she has a heart attack and collapses. The
    opening theme is sung over footage of an ambulance
    going to the hospital.

    Later in the show, Garry has a realization and suggests
    that we should all go out and have a near-death
    experience so that we can re-evaluate our lives soon, and
    start living better now. If we wait for that heart attack, we
    may wait too long to re-evaluate our lives.

    The show ends, btw, with everyone doing the surprise
    party again - this time very quietly and carefully as not to
    excite Garry's mom, who has recovered. It works out and
    the studio audience shares cake with the cast.
    Perspectives on Death
    Authored by: Lise on Tuesday, September 07 2010 @ 10:44 PM GMT+5
    I think it's nice to try to clean up your affairs before you die so your survivors won't have to. But if you happen to die suddenly, or young even, you may not have time. So there you are. Death is inevitable, no? You try not to leave a mess but sometimes you can't help it.

    As for the perspective one gains on life when one is close to death, I think that's very individual. I know for my part that many close family members have died recently and that since then, I find myself feeling more urgency to get my life goals completed before it's too late. That and simply enjoying life more, because it is short, and we may as well enjoy the scenery while we're here.

    I think the other thing that makes a difference is spiritual outlook. If you believe in an afterlife and a spiritual element to the life we're in, then death doesn't seem quite so awful. If you have neither a spiritual outlook nor a belief in an afterlife, then death must be pretty hard to accept.

    I recently revived my belief in the afterlife to solve just these kinds of existential problems. And anyway, how do you explain ghosts? ;)

    Perspective on Death
    Authored by: David on Wednesday, September 08 2010 @ 10:01 AM GMT+5
    when you die your gone
    you become worm food and flower fertilizer
    or food for whatever eats u
    I am happy with this
    and glad of it
    and its the only thing thats true

    ---
    Lefty,liberal,Commie,Pinko,Hippie
    Perspective on Death
    Authored by: NorahCook on Wednesday, September 08 2010 @ 10:35 AM GMT+5
    Agree that the body goes that direction... and if your consciousness is simply lights out, then there is no suffering at all, except for the sad ones left behind. But there's a lot of empirical/anecdotal evidence that consciousness--which you cannot find no matter how hard you try--is not contained by or restricted by the physical body, and that it continues to have experiences. Moody's Life After Life studies posed a hypothesis about near-death experiences, interviewed people who MAY have experienced them, and suddenly people who had never talked about it to anyone else opened up and said, yeah, I had this completely fantastic, iineffable vision of the afterlife and ever since then I don't fear death.
    By the way, "NDEs" are not those terrifying moments when you narrowly miss having an accident, they occur when people are clinically supposed to be dead, but then surprisingly revive and come back to full consciousness again.
    About unfinished business... I think the surprise we might get is that the unfinished business is not the "paying the bills and feeding the fish" sort ... it just might be the times you forgot to visit your grandpa or walked by and didn't drop money in a homeless person's hat.
    Perspective on Death
    Authored by: David on Wednesday, September 08 2010 @ 10:53 AM GMT+5
    there is no "afterlife" unless you consider being fertilizer for plants a afterlife (which it is)
    or bone building material for a mouse or whatever eats you, a afterlife
    peace
    everything else is made up
    i feel no need to create anything else
    though i know lots of others do feel a need to make other stuff up
    Im happy with what can be seen everyday by everyone and every animal
    death=wormfood
    :-)

    ---
    Lefty,liberal,Commie,Pinko,Hippie
    Nobody Knows
    Authored by: annikee on Wednesday, September 08 2010 @ 02:42 PM GMT+5
    There's no hard empirical evidence either way or any way, and in my book, all beliefs are equal. I will not state what I believe as fact; I just have reason to believe. You believe you're wormfood, others believe they reincarnate, others believe they go to a place they call Heaven. It's not my deal, and I have no reason to piss on anyone's parade. What if you get what you envisioned getting? Nobody knows.

    ---
    How many apple places is there country in the old person?
    Nobody Knows
    Authored by: David on Wednesday, September 08 2010 @ 03:54 PM GMT+5
    ok sorry
    peace

    ---
    Lefty,liberal,Commie,Pinko,Hippie
    Nobody Knows
    Authored by: annikee on Wednesday, September 08 2010 @ 04:43 PM GMT+5
    Cool. We're good. Peace.

    ---
    How many apple places is there country in the old person?
    Nobody Knows
    Authored by: David on Wednesday, September 08 2010 @ 04:55 PM GMT+5
    I still know that its not true .but........people have the right to believe not true stuff

    ---
    Lefty,liberal,Commie,Pinko,Hippie
    Nobody Knows
    Authored by: pjmelton on Wednesday, September 08 2010 @ 06:32 PM GMT+5
    David, you are giving atheists a bad name. You are speaking with certainty you do not have. Unless, of course...you are actually dead?

    ---
    "For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. " -- Steven Wright
    Nobody Knows
    Authored by: David on Wednesday, September 08 2010 @ 07:08 PM GMT+5
    pjmelton
    I'm not giving "atheists a bad name"
    because I'm not a "atheist "
    the people who say there is "life after death"
    are the ones that are making things UP
    I speak with the certainty of one who can see..and doesn't make stuff up
    understand?
    I have certainty because i can see .........all i need is eyes to see
    "life after death" is for people who are scared
    im not
    I believe the only life after death is that my remains will give life force to the remaining animals
    the reason i know that is because i see that , as we all do, everyday
    I am very thrilled to be food for a chipmunk

    ;privileged in fact
    Im sorry if i bother people with my talk

    ---
    Lefty,liberal,Commie,Pinko,Hippie
    Nobody Knows
    Authored by: annikee on Wednesday, September 08 2010 @ 07:56 PM GMT+5
    and P.P.S. I have seen things to the contrary of what you've seen. But you haven't seen what I have, and so there it is.

    ---
    How many apple places is there country in the old person?
    Nobody Knows
    Authored by: pjmelton on Thursday, September 09 2010 @ 07:46 AM GMT+5
    I can see that logic is pointless, but I will try one more time. No one actually knows what happens when people (or chipmunks) die, because dead people (and chipmunks) can't tell us.

    I agree with your beliefs, and don't have a problem with being chipmunk food (though I will probably be cremated), but I don't presume to say I know for certain that there is no afterlife. That is because I am not dead and cannot possibly know.

    ---
    "For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. " -- Steven Wright
    Nobody Knows
    Authored by: annikee on Wednesday, September 08 2010 @ 07:52 PM GMT+5
    You have the right to say anything. But a larger argument that is quite pertinent to modern American life is that opinion is not fact. And anything based on opinion cannot said to be true nor false. It is opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

    ---
    How many apple places is there country in the old person?
    Nobody Knows
    Authored by: annikee on Wednesday, September 08 2010 @ 07:54 PM GMT+5
    P.S. I like your tag.

    ---
    How many apple places is there country in the old person?
    Perspective on Death
    Authored by: David on Wednesday, September 08 2010 @ 08:09 PM GMT+5
    that things live and die and eat each other isn't a "opinion"
    and that's what I've said
    there is no "opinion" in my position
    :-)
    Peace

    ---
    Lefty,liberal,Commie,Pinko,Hippie
    Perspective on Death
    Authored by: David on Wednesday, September 08 2010 @ 08:12 PM GMT+5
    if u said u like dmy tag ..thanks .......i dont kno who you ment

    ---
    Lefty,liberal,Commie,Pinko,Hippie
    Perspective on Death
    Authored by: annikee on Wednesday, September 08 2010 @ 08:42 PM GMT+5
    Yes, that's you.
    That you think that you die and that's it, yes, that's an opinion.

    ---
    How many apple places is there country in the old person?
    Perspective on Death
    Authored by: David on Thursday, September 09 2010 @ 07:39 AM GMT+5
    oh


    ---
    Lefty,liberal,Commie,Pinko,Hippie
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