Yet another conflict on Elliot. The second in recent days. This evening a woman at 175 Elliot St. was transported with a head & neck injury. When the head injury occured this afternoon she refused transport. But tonight she was in severe pain. Brutal assault. Are the people on Elliot getting more violent? I wonder. How do we have a dialogue about this?
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How do we have a dialogue about this?
… very, very carefully
Boston Globe article features Brattleboro
This article about Brattleboro and other Vermont towns appeared in the Boston Globe several days ago. I don’t think many people don’t understand how grave the situation has become.
ww.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/04/27/guns-and-heroin-traverse-deadly-path-between-massachusetts-and-vermont/zJVoPvPmOLtBVFY7Vho0MI/story.html
Boston Globe article features Brattleboro
This article about Brattleboro and other Vermont towns appeared in the Boston Globe several days ago. I don’t think many people don’t understand how grave the situation has become.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/…/story.html
Read the Phoenix, maybe, instead of the Globe
Brattleboro, compared to many cities, remains a relatively safe place. However, that should not breed complacency, and there are patterns to observe.
Elliot Street has a violent (and sometimes drunken) history dating back more than a hundred years.
It is not uncommon for the violent offenders to be intoxicated, not by heroin, but the drug of America’s choosing, alcohol.
Here is an article, touching on this too familiar theme, from the Vermont phœnix. Brattleboro’s newspaper from the 15th century, September 01, 1893, Page 4, Image 4
< http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn98060050/1893-09-01/ed-1/seq-4/>
?t starts, “G. B. Kirwan was arrested Friday night by Officer Spear. Kirwan was intoxicated and was maltreating his family.”
It ends with “Kirwan may be arraigned for abusing his family. He signed a pledge promising to never again drink a drop of intoxicating liquor”
Did he succeed in never drinking again? Did he continue to maltreat his family? Who knows?
Will Elliot Street have more violence in the next couple of years?
Definitely.
Will some of the offenders be violent drunks? Definitely.
I am not a psychic. I don’t believe in psychics. But this is such a predictable situation, that there is no need for psychic powers.
Will Brattleboro step up to the plate and pay our police enough to retain a force large enough to at least a steady and adequate police force?
Probably not.
I am gravely concerned that Brattleboro, which has a history of underpaying its police officers, and has a history or not being able to retain them, will continue to do so, for a long time, due to the size of the service -eating debt load we have apparently been saddled with. The debt from the bonds for the police and fire stations leave us no room to take care of things that matter.
Here is the link to the article
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn98060050/1893-09-01/ed-1/seq-4/
Obviously, we want to be reading about the heroin of today in articles like the one in the globe, but alcohol has always been associated with violent behavior on the part of those most susceptible to its worse effects.
It always will be.
The question is, are we going to be complacent about it?
A culmination of troubles
The one single reality that comes to bear on incidents like this, is poverty. Poverty is very stressful. Stress begs to escape from the soul of the afflicted person. The difference between people is not the ability to manage the stress but the hope or knowledge that it will end; that the stressor(s) is temporary. For many, it is not temporary but long term and sometimes even life long. It’s far more difficult for someone to ignore or address (and therefore manage) their stress when living under hopeless conditions when there is no end in sight. Poverty is considered punishable in our society and trust me when I say it is something truly felt by those living the reality. Ever present are the threats.
Let’s pretend for a moment that the reports of fighting came from more well-to-do neighborhoods. With a moment taken to think about the differences, it shouldn’t take long to figure out the reasons why some neighborhoods see more (and seemingly everlasting) strife than others.
The answer then, isn’t more policing.
Back when I was a single mom, and people were blaming the poor for everything, I used to ask people to give a little encouragement or share some ideas.. pick one of my kids to help mentor.. credit me for working two jobs to stay off the dole instead of putting me in a damned if you do or damned if you don’t position. Although I realize that drug use plays a rival role these days, it’s still the same ball field, and I really don’t think the answers have changed much.
In my lifetime of poverty, I’ve had to fight almost every battle there is. I have not always been able to win, but the ones I have overcome were important ones, and I did it through support and encouragement of those around me. The judgements and punishments delivered by society did nothing for me, or for my kids; but simply made it all the harder. Some of the support and encouragement in later years even came from this site, iBrattleboro.
If substances had been offered to me at certain points in these struggles, I may have been tempted to take that type of “support” just as easily as any other; to be honest, I don’t know for sure. It’s being at the right place, at the right time, and in the right frame of mind; and the right frame of mind is seriously deformed and impacted by the levels of stress and whether they can be considered temporary or not.
The answers are expensive and time consuming. Education, opportunity, second chances, or just being among people who can be relied on for encouragement and support .. a tough job for anyone.
Brattleboro can’t solve this problem. Sometimes I feel no one can. Dialogue is Ok depending on who’s listening.
Sadly. crime ridden areas beget poverty
If you want to ruin a town’s economic lifeblood, let it sink under a reputation of violence.
Preventative policing, which can actually prevent crime, requires adequate staffing.
There is no one magical tool, but real policing takes police, and the money to pay them.
Poverty is the necessity of another’s greed
Substance use and poverty can go together, but poverty is the necessity of another’s greed and, while substance use is actually a perfectly natural expression of human behavior, it is criminalized by the awlful and priggish drug warriors.
There are answers, just not the ones most people are trained to hear, much less listen to…
Citizens can own Elliot St.
Simple solution. Take back Elliot St. In the state of Vermont you have the right to carry a weapon for personal protection whether it be open or concealed. As I’ve said before. If there was a presence of law abiding citizens showing their right to carry you’d probably see the incidents decrease.
No, if people were exercising
No, if people were exercising their right to carry, there would be more guns, and thus more gun violence. Please don’t bring guns to my street.
Crime Prevention
Crime prevention has some hope only when there’s a collaborative effort; which must include a majority of those living in any problematic neighborhood. This is not a response that should be undertaken by police alone. While I understand the concept of having police visible as a measure of prevention, it’s not an end-all solution, and without the support of a majority of those who live in the area that is being “policed”, it won’t work.
Those who have lived in that area of town Rolf points to, have many times over the years tried a collaborative approach, yet the problems and reputation persist. I have never lived in that area, but have known people over the years who have and all were all law abiding people. Let’s not demonize the entire neighborhood for the acts of a few. That creates only more stress, undeserved shame and embarrassment, and some very bad outcomes for those who live there and feel compelled to respond. It brings to mind a young woman who committed suicide not too many years ago, while trying to stop a neighbor from repeatedly videotaping her and her children .. the neighbor was trying to “help” police by capturing “drug dealing” activity.. and since we had no budget worries at that time so I will assume, an ample police force. That resulted in some response by our state legislature which had little to do with crime prevention; there’s a law on the books now concerning video taping to the extent it was able to be written (there are always civil liberty considerations). There is only so much police actually have the power to do, and most of it comes after a crime has been committed or when one is in progress.
I don’t think that fingering one area of our town is a responsible way to create dialogue in support of avoiding cuts to the town budget so I’m a little surprised as that seems to be the case here. This is not a criticism of Rolf – I think he’s generally very thoughtful and I also understand his concerns. I also hear Vidda who advocates for part of the answer in decriminalizing some activities. For those who would exercise the right to bear arms, as Mr. Mikes comment suggests, a collaborative crime prevention measure actually includes dialogue on weapons related violence, but more along the lines of gun control and a complete opposite to the gun as a crime prevention tool. A collaborative also has many other community resources that come into play; mentoring programs and youth activities, child protective services, domestic violence services.. church and workplace involvement, school involvement, and the list continues. A police department is being asked far too much of us if we expect they alone will protect or change an entire neighborhood.
If there is to be dialogue I think the worst possible way to engage people would be through suggesting fear that things will only get worse. While communication is essential, if the issue is violence and the resulting reputation (long standing as it has been), please don’t minimize or over-simplify a response to be the burden of a police department, and one facing possible budget cuts, at that. There are several more public and private agencies that are needed to bring any meaningful result, and with them (us) all working together, along with the support of a majority of the people who live in the immediate area, it takes a huge and ongoing (think years) commitment of time as well as money. The police department isn’t the only agency facing budget cuts and it certainly can’t act alone to bring about the change that people may want to see.
I am hopeful to a point to see the heavy legal pendulum begin to swing in a new direction with a more appropriate response to drug abuse, treatment and screening, relieving our prisons of those who have participated in drug related crimes (one way or another), possibly bringing new ways of monitoring offenders within the community and none of it isolated to just our state. It’s slowly creeping across the country. But there is so much more that would need to be addressed in tandem.. and my fear is that once the new approaches being to cite cases involving relapse and reoffending (many are predictable) progress will again stall and what is actually a great start to solving many troubles will be deemed a failure. I hope this isn’t going to be another false start to making real change.
Don’t forget that the punishment is life long. In Vermont, even though on applications for housing and employment the concern is limited to the past 3, 5 or 7 years, anyone who checks a record in this state will get an entire history whether they want one or not. This keeps people down. It limits housing opportunities and discards job opportunities. It keeps people hopeless and keeps them poor. How do you think people respond when any effort to change or better their situation is met head on with a display of a life long histories in such an unforgiving society? They learn that despite every effort, society won’t let them forget and won’t let them succeed. It breeds more of the same hopelessness and stress that will live on in the “problematic” areas of any town. Nothing changes if nothing changes. In becomes a matter of sheer survival for some. They may end up dragged into the woods to be shot. I envy anyone who cannot see or understand the realities of crime and crime prevention (or so called) and who are convinced the answer is as simple as involving more police.
For 45-50 thousand a year, we can house an inmate. It will cost the same regardless of the underlying crime. About half that if we use the prison-for-profit system. There’s more math to be done; when Dad or Mom is being punished, the remaining partner, if there is one, needs even more help to keep food on the table (while living in a neighborhood they may fear) Ok, so, here’s my question for anyone who dares to ever in a million years try something new. What does it cost to give a man or woman vocational training, or send them to a two year college? I would love to see a judge sentence someone to more meaningful change.. I’d love to someday hear as the gavel comes down these words; “We care about you and we care about your welfare and how all of that impacts our community in one way or another. We want to be safe and we want you to be safe, too. I am handing down the stiffest sentence available to me .. you are to attend a two year vocational course to be served concurrent with your “rehabilitation” The end result will enable you to earn a living, live anywhere desirable to you and take care of yourself and your family.” There is no one who doesn’t want to be productive. There is no child who grew up with high hopes of becoming a criminal. It is a lifestyle that evolves. We can stop it.
Of course, we have to make sure to work a little harder on keeping kids in school and graduating not more of them, but all of them.
In the interim, our police are not social workers. We cannot expect or allow them to even attempt to rise to some challenge that “crime prevention” is their responsibility alone. That’s how people end up dead. Increasing the size of a police force is a symptom; not a cure. The answers are there but nobody can even recognize what they are. Maybe one needs to live in that world to see the more obvious ways to escape from it; most of them fairly hopeless for the ones living in that reality. The majority remain stuck and we seem to like it that way. It’s maybe too profitable to give up.
The reputation of one or two areas of town has persisted through the years, even with a well funded budget. Please try to think of reasons why this is true.
The foundation upon which all our woes sit
Unless legislators remove the criminal sanctions from across-the-board drug “use,” this society will spin its wheels…
I didn’t say drug “abuse,” because everyone, except cigs and booze users are caught up in a sweep. Abuse is actually a secondary issue for legislators, not primary.
The drug war is fueled by corrupt economics and the inter-mix of burgeoning criminal and mental health services.
It all has a “cloudburst” effect on our society: stigmatization, criminalization, segregation that destroys the future of those caught up in this crazed criminalization-driven country.
Without changing the foundation upon which all our woes sit, you all should just sit back and go for the ride, or not. Maybe taking your timid, baby-steps of resolution will make one think they are actually doing something.
The intelligence of an empty warehouse...
Drug use in and of itself should never be criminalized.
A crime is a crime, whether drug use is involved or not.
Crimes like reckless endangerment, spousal abuse, DWI, burglary, assault, and all other crimes are already on the books, and usually greatly enforced.
But to knee-jerk and criminalize people just for using a drug? Only a society with the collective intelligence of an empty warehouse would do that. Not mention narrow-minded ugliness…
And people wonder why we are a crime-ridden nation??
Community can help
Having lived in crime areas most of my life, there’s little anyone or even a group can do to end it permanently. But when one encounters a violent situation it can often be diffused. The reaction of the surrounding group of people counts. Yelling, “Fight! Fight!” or the like steps up the insanity, and I’ve seen this happen quite a few times in Bratt. Perhaps we should be investing time in training people who are brave enough to step up and calm things down at the first signs of fights. I’ve done this myself. It works. Reconciliation and community justice afterwards is fine, but how much better to prevent it in the moment so it doesn’t happen? We’re all in this together.
Community
Well said.
Intervention Residents with their bare-hands
Don’t know what community justice means, except in terms of vigilantism.
Not sure this is a good idea: “…investing time in training people who are brave enough to step up and calm things down at the first signs of fights.”
The logistics of having community people trained as you suggest – is nearly impossible.
Having trained residents patrolling the streets or trained residents out for a stroll to happen to be there at the first flare up is not a workable investment.
They would have to be seers as well to discern the future.
Trained preventative residents would certainly need special gear, sophisticated medical training, communication equipment, medical insurance, indemnification against lawsuits, , . and so on, to be allowed to function as you suggest.
.
Intervention Residents with their bare-hands, trained or not, are more likely a bandaid liability.
In the box
This would not be a band of peep patrolling the streets. Simply people who are around anyway, who didn’t grow up with street fights that had to be calmed every damn day. We who did know that it rarely involves anything physical, just an ability to yell over a crowd and talk sense until the passion dies down. I’m talking the people who are already regulars where this happens, not middle-aged outsiders who’ve got egos at stake.
There is a community justice center in Bratt. Look it up.
Just an ability to yell over a crowd and talk sense
Makes me wonder how many “middle-aged outsiders who’ve got egos at stake” spend time on the streets of Brattleboro.
But these two sentences are strange to read…“Simply people who are around anyway, who didn’t grow up with street fights that had to be calmed every damn day. We who did know that it rarely involves anything physical, just an ability to yell over a crowd and talk sense until the passion dies down.”
That’s heavy and sad. When it all adds up, we all deserve a better summation than that…
maybe
But reality is reality and I’ve been hearing about a lot of unnecessary fistfighting that nobody knows how to calm. They are skills, nothing more, with a bit of moxie and a desire to keep peace. We had to do it on the block. It can be done. Violence breeds violence, peacemaking breeds peacemaking.
In the Dark ..
I haven’t been hearing anything about recent problems on Elliot St. so I’m not in the know as to what has been going on lately, other than Rolf pointing out two recent flash fights. Are these “flash” fights between teens? Adults? Neighbors? Family? People passing through? Friends of friends? Do those involved seem to be under the influence of drugs or alcohol? I think the response depends on who’s involved and why they’re fighting.
Rolf seemed to have given a snippet of information with his question in what seems to be an effort to get some support to sparing the police department from suffering a budget cut. Nothing more.
The stuff that had been making headlines is now for most events, judicial history (a man shot dead in a motel on Putney Road; a kidnapping that ended on Western Avenue; drive by shooting on South Main and a few others in recent years). If our police department were twice the size, there’s nothing to indicate that the victims involved would have been spared their ordeal or the characters/offenders arrested before doing what they did. People are arrested after committing a crime, not beforehand. A crime prevention campaign wouldn’t have stopped any of these things from happening.
The man who was shot at the motel on Putney Road, by the way, wasn’t an outsider. He had a job and a family. According to someone who knows him, he may have been selling drugs. As far as I would know, he didn’t live at the motel, nor did he live on Elliot. I haven’t heard that he was violent, drunk or otherwise under the influence.
I’m not sure what a “flash” fight is; it sounds like an eruption of emotion but I would think it’s the result of some simmering for hours or days or weeks. If I had to guess, it would involve younger people and it would be over some emotionally charged or immature issue more typical of a playground. Name calling? We don’t know.
People aren’t always able to manage emotions even when stone sober so I wouldn’t be terribly concerned about a couple of fist fights, and not knowing the people involved or what the fight was about, there’s nothing for me to do. I imagine someone called the police.. sounds like rescue may have been there? Sounds to me as though at least one person will be charged with assault but sometimes in these cases everyone involved ends up charged, injured or not, and the story comes out in court. Bottom line is, the police could not have prevented this from happening in the first place, which was part of the original question. So I still believe prevention involves far more than police patrols, especially when a situation (whatever it was) culminates into a fist fight. A passing patrol car wouldn’t stop an emotional eruption.
A crime, once committed, doesn’t go away. There are years that must pass according to statutes of limitations, so if a person isn’t arrested on the spot, there’s still time, if that’s to be a necessary outcome.
the ones I heard about
Don’t know about the others’ stories. The ones I’ve heard about lately were in and around the bars on E St. Likely involved people drinking, and were regular old fashioned fistfights.
Typical
Seems to me if someone has been over-served alcohol in one of our bars we should expect a flash or two or three or four.
I don’t like relying on police to take care of a problem brought to bear by a profit making machine; whether it’s the Retreat or a bar. A bartender has the one prevention tool needed.. which is the word “no”; we don’t have control over what’s consumed before or after but there’s ample control within the confines of the establishment. Anyone who drinks to a point of anesthetizing their brain to that level (fight) has been over-served. Period.
Original post
The original comment about the most recent fight and resulting injuries was posted by an Elliot St resident – not Rolf. Rolf commented on the history of public fighting, etc in that area of Brattleboro, which has apparently been lengthy. When I was looking to move to Brattleboro 7 years ago I was warned many times by both residents and even by some realtors to not move to Elliot St. I’m very glad I paid attention to those warnings. Not sure what all the reasons are but it does seem like an area with more than it’s share of problems.
Understood
I seemed to have been caught up in the notion against budget cuts to the PD as allowing crime to rise.. but you’re right – the original question of dialogue was not offered by Rolf.
It has been almost 55 years since I first laid eyes on a bar on Elliot St. in Brattleboro. Didn’t live here at the time. My sister and I had to wait in the car while our father went in to “see some friends”. It was a dumpy looking place in the area where the Hi-Rise now stands. While we waited, there was a fight between two men who spilled out onto the sidewalk. When they were finished it was hard to tell who the victor was. The police weren’t called, or if they were it took them a long time to get there as we were still in the car for at least another half hour after the two men went on their way.
The street lamps that I think are still there are the result of an effort to make Elliot St. more inviting. That was probably back in the 70’s. Then came the park. There have been people who have come and gone as residents through the years all trying to improve image and reputation. I think if someone opened a bar on Flat St. we’d see Flat St. change, too. On Elliot is also the Harmony lot. That seems to have always offered a place for people to congregate before, during and after patronizing a bar or two in part because it’s a large area and away from the street itself. It has also been inviting to many other groups of people as a place to just hang out. I remember a lot of complaints about various bars on Elliot through the years, so, a large part of a prevention method is obvious to me. I believe when a bar goes to renew a liquor license, the police are sometimes asked, or offer up, the number of related incidents and that’s when some issues might be addressed. But again, I have no clue as to why the fights erupted and to speculate that it’s related to bars and drinking could be a stretch .. or not.
My thoughts are that it is a
My thoughts are that it is a combination of several bad situations; a few bars in a small area; some houses that are, let’s face it – owned by slumlords and those kinds of buildings that are allowed to get more and more run down and where perhaps there is a revolving door of people coming and going; add to that the Harmony Lot which at night is somewhat dark and seems to be a place where people might congregate and add to those things an ever increasing drug problem and a town that offers nowhere to go and nothing to do for older teens and young adults. Maybe all of these things contribute to the problems of Elliot Street -maybe none of them do. It’s unfortunate that the families that live in that area and are trying to make things better are being thwarted by troublemakers.
Flat Street does have the Flat Street Pub which doesn’t seem to have or cause any problems that I’ve heard about.
So much for what I know
I didn’t realize there was now a pub on Flat St. A nice surprise to hear there is one and none of the same problems as Elliot. What’s the clientele, do you know?
I actually know someone who moved away from Elliot last year. A single mom. From the sounds of it, there’s no break on rents in exchange for agreeing to live there so it’s not as if someone lives there for cheaper housing. Very stressful for her to live in substandard housing and still have trouble paying the rent. Her mom worried because all she saw her daughter do was work and stress.
You said it; it is a small area with enough parking (Harmony and the garage) to take care of the entire downtown all in one spot. (Between the Brooks House fire and the big tenement near the playground that also burned down: so many fewer to come and go) So we know the problem doesn’t involve fights over parking spaces 🙂
The Flat Street Pub is almost
The Flat Street Pub is almost a ‘family’ pub -by that I mean that earlier in the evenings there are often families in there with young kids having an early dinner. I’ve gone there with my son and 4 year old grandson. Beyond that there’s a pretty big pre and post ‘movie at the Latchis’ crowd and the usual sports watching crowd. I’ve taken out of town friends there a few times. They have pretty good food (bar food like burgers and sandwiches, etc but better than average) and they often have a very delicious chocolate cake! I’ve never heard of any kind of problem arising from there. It’s really the only place to get something to eat later in the evening so they do a good post event business. It was closed down for many, many months after Irene – they got flooded out and lost most of their equipment, etc. I was glad to see them come back and continue to do well.
Not news
Some years ago the library had a small exhibit of drawings from a local artist working in the late 1800’s. I think the picture I recall was dated about 1880. It showed a fistfight on Elliot Street with four or five guys standing around them watching.
Brattleboro certainly has its share of incidents but it seems to be pretty much at the same rate of occurrence for a couple centuries.
thank you everybody who
thank you everybody who responded and read these comments. We need this dialogue to take a good look at what’s happening in our community. Yes, it’s Elliot St. but really it’s our town. I love Brattleboro and Elliot St. is lovely right now with the perfume of budding flowers and leaves unfolding from winter’s clutch. I love Elliot St. most of the time but when something brutal erupts I guess I need the help of my community to look, listen and pay attention to what’s happening in our town- no matter what the street name. If it’s happening to me, to the people on Elliot St. it’s happening to our town. Many people walk down Elliot street, some are singing, some are chatting on their phone, some are reciting poetry, and others are walking their dogs…we get it all. I love a good neighborhood. This conflict wasn’t the work of a landlord, or a drug lord or the police not paying attention. This was unreported, by our newspaper, as of yet, but I hope all who were involved survived the assault. It looked brutal. I am worried that this will drive away good neighbors- people who love our downtown and can live in harmony. We need more of those people to quell the difficult energy. There will always be conflict in life but I would hope that the resolution of conflict might be learning how to communicate and not resort to violence. Let’s love Elliot St. Let’s make a pact to love it. When you have a spare moment send us your love.
~ Sending Love ~
( and hugs )
Love to E St
I think of Elliot as the center of town. Good people live there.