At their regular Tuesday meeting, the Brattleboro Selectboard dealt primarily with money issues — spending, granting, analyzing, raising, applying for, and otherwise interacting with it. It wasn’t always the main topic of discussion, but it was an undercurrent. Much of it was good news, too.
For example, it was announced that over $50,000 has been allocated for artists applying to fulfill the public arts component of the NEA Our Town grant, and requests for proposals will be out shortly. Many Town employees will receive raises.
The Brattleboro Selectboard also learned about keeping water clean, discussed cable access, purchased a variety of vehicles, and approved contracts for new roads and sidewalks.
Should dogs be punished for the human’s behavior? This and more below.
Preliminaries
Donna Macomber was absent.
Chair David Gartenstein made note of the long agenda, congratulated students in town at the end of their school year, and brought up an issue he felt deserves more public scrutiny.
At issue is a proposed partnership between the Brooks House and the Downtown Alliance to create a park in the northern section of Harmony Lot, and whether the Harmony Lot tunnel would remain closed to traffic. He said he had “significant concerns” about whether the partnership or project was in the best interest of the town, and has added an agenda item to fully discuss the matter on July 7.
Gartenstein made it clear that the Downtown Alliance exists by Selectboard appointment, and that another organization could be designated. He mentioned previous real estate troubles for the organization as possible red flags for this project.
Town Manager Peter Elwell had no comments.
For selectboard comments and committee reports, David Schoales mentioned an architectural award won by the Co-op, an American Institute of Architect Award for excellence in affordable housing design. “Not a common thing,” he said.
For public participation, John Wilmerding said that the Finance Committee, of which he is now presiding clerk, is postponing their Wednesday meeting, because he will be out of town.
Liquor Commissioners – The Tavern
Acting as Liquor Commissioners, the Brattleboro Selectboard approved a First Class liquor license and outdoor consumption permit for The Tavern, located at 889 Putney Road. The previous owner of the restaurant is transferring ownership back to the Colonial Motel owners, Shamir Patel, Bhavna Patel and Anjali Patel.
The hotel owners are looking for someone to run the restaurant and hope to be up and serving diinner again in about 3 months.
Water & Sewer Commissioners – Car Replacement
The Brattleboro Selectboard, acting now as Water & Sewer Commissioners, approved the purchase of a 2015 Chevrolet Sonic from Shearer Chevrolet in Burlington at a cost, after trade-in, of $16,081.
There had been $20,000 set aside in the FY16 Capital Plan for the purchase, and with a saving of $4,000, the purchase is being approved now to take advantage of current pricing. The Vermont State Bid system was used to request bids from dealers.
“It’s our first piece of FY16 business,” noted Gartenstein.
NEA Our Town Grant Action Plan and RFP
The Brattleboro Selectboard approved an RFP and Plan of Action for Phase III of the NEA Our Town grant at their meeting Tuesday.
Over $50,000 is now expected to be available for the project, which is a combination of NEA grants funds and matching local donations.
David Gartenstein said he was very pleased with the way the community had come together for such a great proposal. “Such a turnaround from four weeks ago.” He thanked everyone who worked on the RFP and plan of action.
“We came together to finalize the call for artists, and move forward and save this grant,” said Kate Anderson.
The call for proposals seeks an “inaugural creative placemaking project – a permanent or temporal public artistic expression or arts-based performances – intended as a response to Brattleboro’s past, present, and future, its relationship with natural and built landscapes, its cultural heritage and its vision for itself as a community that embraces arts.” The town’s public arts policy will apply.
Town Manager Elwell said that the RFP would go out this Friday, and that a screening committee as well as a different selection committee would oversee the creative decisions, with administrative and approvals handled by the town and selectboard. Five weeks would be given to artists to draft a proposal, and five more weeks will be given for finalists to present final plans and budgets. Projects could be underway by October.
The final project, installation, or performance can be completed as soon after that is possible, and can debut anytime before the hoped-for extension runs out in July. If the extension isn’t granted, Elwell believes there still may be opportunities with the matching funds raised.
Elwell said there had been some “fun discussions about right and left brain thinkers” while working out the details of the RFP and schedule.
Applications require a description of the project, statement of interest, statement of community involvement, images of prior work, accomplishments and qualifications
Rod Francis has written to the NEA requesting a one-year extension of our previous extension. David Gartenstein recommended reading the full letter for a good summary of “the town’s perspective about what’s occurred.”
Scot Borofsky rose to suggest that the town simply hand the entire project over to the Brattleboro Museum & Art Center. He expressed a concern that a year of effort would be wasted by the Town Arts Committee if they stay involved with the grant. He insisted the timeline was far too generous, and that it would kill the grant. “The process that will take place over a month in July should be done in two weeks, with money appropriated by July 1, and projects done by October or November.”
Jon Gitelson disagreed. He said his artwork takes time to research and plan. He wondered if sites had been selected, or how long the art was expected to last.
Elwell said that the locations to be considered were wide open and not confining. He said the town would work with artists and aim to be as accommodating as possible. He also said that the slightly expanded timeline came about, in part, from feedback at the previous meeting about the draft timeline being too aggressive.
Anderson added that the Public Arts Policy included with the RFP materials has details about locations, maintenance, safety, and other questions artists might have. She pointed out, too, that the art museum had been actively involved in helping with the selection process and timeline.
Borofsky said again that the town should give the grant to the professionals at the museum. John Wilmerding noted that the museum was primarily involved in visual arts.
Brattleboro will accept letters of interest for the screening committee, from the public and/or members of the museum and/or arts committee. Anyone in town with an interest can apply. Details to emerge soon.
Arts Committee Size
The Brattleboro Selectboard reduced the size of the Arts Committee from eight to seven members, to help them achieve quorum and to eliminate possibilities of tie votes.
Scot Borofksy was recognized by David Gartenstein to speak to the number of members, but his comments leapt to criticism of multiple chairs of the committee, and were ruled out of order.
Parade Permit – By the People: Brattleboro Goes Fourth
Brattleboro will be celebrating Independence Day with a parade approved by the selectboard.
The 42nd annual parade, run by an all-volunteer committee and private funds, starts at the high school parking lot at 10 a.m. and heads down Fairground Road, to Canal Street, to Main Street, to the common.
Anyone wishing to volunteer or donate can send an email to brattleborogoesfourth@gmail.com
BCTV Strategic Planning
Cable access stations have traditionally been funded primarily by cable operators in exchange for the “monopoly” granted to them in a region for cable service. Every few years, BCTV must renegotiate a contract with the cable provider in order to re-establish payments from the company.
In preparation for the contract renewal process, BCTV gathers feedback about their strategic plan. Tuesday, Cor Trowbridge and Wendy Mason discussed the cable access station with Brattleboro’s selectboard and asked for their feedback.
She told them about recent projects, such as online video archives and having schedules published in the newspaper. She told the board that BCTV will again be asking for a High Definition channel from Comcast. She said BCTV also hoped to get listed in the on-screen cable listings.
Trowbridge said that while many people are cutting the cord and watching streaming services, cable demand is still strong here.
John Allen suggested BCTV improve their sound quality.
Kate O’Connor said many people mention watching BCTV to her. “It’s a real benefit,” she said. “A great service.”
David Schoales hoped they would show more news, and would promote Brattleboro more. Mason suggested he share videos to promote Brattleboro.
Gartenstein said that many town manager candidates had watched meetings and came prepared. He suggested BCTV enhance their website further, and improve tagging.
Tim Johnson, a former board member of BCTV, said the HD channel is “a must.”
Trowbidge said increasingly her role is to coordinate people and organizations in the community who will pay to have their meetings covered. Mason said people could use the website to fill out forms for meeting coverage, or becoming a producer.
A survey is being circulated to provide feedback to BCTV.
Public Water Supply Ponds
Interested in stricter public drinking water standards, and more local control over those water sources? You’ll be interested in the work being done by Page and Jed Guertin of the Vermont Clean Water Coalition, who gave a presentation to the Brattleboro Selectboard.
Their message was that Vermont towns need to take positive action to protect drinking water supplies, otherwise the state will allow recreational uses beyond what the municipality might expect.
Brattleboro’s water supply sources, Sunset Lake and Pleasant Valley Reservoir, are the local waters to protect, they said.
The reservoir is off-limits, but Sunset Lake is used for fishing and non-motorized boating. Unless a municipality has “incontestable control” over the water source through its charter and ordinances, the state has authority over it, which opens up potential recreational uses at odds with keeping the water clean.
A new state bill, H.33, by Rep. Kitzmiller, would give Brattleboro and other similar towns legal authority to regulate our local water sources as we see fit. It didn’t pass this session but is expected to come up again next year.
Another option was to make a charter change that is unassailable, such as one being crafted in Montpelier to protect the water from Berlin Pond, recently opened to recreation, almost by accident, by the state.
Town Manager Elwell thanked the Guertins for the information provided, and promised to be in touch with Montpelier to learn more about the language of their charter change.
Monthly Finance Report With John O’Connor
John O’Connor gave the selectboard the financial update through May 31, 2015. With eleven months (91.7%) of the fiscal year complete, the General Fund expenses are at 90.9% of the annual budget.
Utilities Fund expenditures are at 90.8% and Parking Fund expenditures at 91.2% of their annual budgets. $13,412 has been spent on the Police & Fire Facility project.
Just over $4 million is loaned out, and $436,069 is available to be loaned or granted.
Brattleboro currently has 47 active grants and 13 in the pipeline.
“We’re in very good shape,” said John O’Connor.
Annual Dog Warrant
Dogs be warned! If your owner has failed to get a license for you, you are on the annual Dog Warrant list. You may be considered a canine criminal until your owner pays up, and tickets may be issued.
Technically, dogs and wolf-hybrids can be impounded and even destroyed according the law.
“I hate this,” said Kate O’Connor. “I hate the part where we may destroy them. I know we never do, but it’s not the dogs fault. The dog pays the penalty for the human.”
So, be warned, Bella, Buddy, Lager, Birdie, Gigi, Mikey, Black Jack, Junior, Jake, Oscar, Achilles, Clover, Hoochie, Nola, Ninja, Colby, Aggie, Lady, Daisy, Duncan, and others on the list.
Farmland Tax Stabilization Policies Revised
The Agricultural Advisory Committee has been meeting recently, and they had some agricultural advice for the Brattleboro Selectboard Tuesday night. They and town staff recommended amending the Farmland Tax Stabilization Program, specifically Section 2, to better deal with current situations. The Brattleboro Selectboard agreed, and authorized the changes.
One change creates an opportunity for farmers who might make less than 67% of their income from the farm to apply for a tax stabilization waiver. The 67% threshold is to prevent non-farm uses from qualifying for a tax credit, but recent experience shows that families with commitments to farming sometimes fall short, for a variety of reasons.
Under the new rules, a farm can have their taxes reviewed privately, then submit a public declaration by the reviewers to qualify for the waiver.
Another change extends the time given to the Selectboard for consenting to changes in ownership, occupancy or operation. The new rules allow for a farm to alert the town when the change occurs, rather than to ask the town for permission.
The final change reduces the acreage requirement from 25 to 10 acres, which is more in line with the smaller farm trend in Vermont.
Evidence Locker Purchase and Install
Brattleboro Police will be installing new evidence lockers in their offices at the Municipal Center.
Wholeshot Construction of Townshend, VT, received a $1,370 contract to prepare an area for installation and install new, $11,495 evidence lockers approved for purchase from Systematics, of Westborough, MA.
The evidence lockers are modular and durable enough to be re-used in a new police facility, in the event Brattleboro decides to build one.
Police Cruiser
In the FY15 Capital Improvement Plan, two vehicles were scheduled for an upgrade, and this is the second of the two.
The 2016 Ford Explorer will come from Formula Ford of Montpelier, VT at a cost of $24,768 after trade-in. (Brattleboro Ford was the other, higher bid.)
Adamson Industries of Haverill, MA will turn the ordinary Explorer into a cruiser during the “up-fit” process, adding necessary equipment such as lighting bars, vehicle markings, and a camera, at an additional cost of $15,747.
“Cameras in cruisers are necessary,” said David Gartenstein.
“We deadline the vehicle if the camera doesn’t work,” agreed Chief Fitzgerald. “It’s that important to us.”
The total project cost of $40,515 is more than $3,500 over what had been planned, but other savings in the Capital Improvement Fund will be applied to make up the difference.
2015 JAG Grant Application
The Brattleboro Selectboard approved an application to the U.S. Department of Justice for $17,062 to help pay for community policing services, major accident investigations, and a tactical unit.
The funding amount is awarded based on crime statistics reported in the previous year.
“They are very liberal as what it can be used for,” said Chief Fitzgerald.
Main Street Sidewalk Project Bids
Main Street east-side sidewalks will soon be re-built. The project has been “ years in the making,” said Steve Barrett, adding that he was happy to be at this point, finally.
The Brattleboro Selectboard approved a contract to Dubois and King for just over $58,000 for construction inspection (engineering), and $546,350 to Zaluzny Excavating Corporation for sidewalk construction.
Zaluzny is from Vernon, and Dubois and King are from Randolph.
A lower bid from John Turner Consulting for engineering services at a cost of $32,410 was rejected during the ranked bidding process. Dubois and King had superior scores, and a more inclusive bid demonstrating their previous experience working with VTrans requirements.
The work will be started the week after July 4th, and is expected to be completed within 60 days. The Department of Public Works plans to reach out to the public and merchants to keep everyone informed of the project status.
Funding for the work comes from a variety of sources accumulated over the years – a bond, some capital fund balance, budget transfers, and a grant.
The sidewalks are expected to last 60-70 years. “Until 2075,” noted Gartenstein. “Probably a good investment.”
Buying A Dump Truck
The DPW is getting a new dump truck. It will replace another, from 2003.
What sort of dump truck, you might ask? Well, it’s a 66,000 GVWR Min. 7600 Series dump truck, with H.P. Fairfield Everest equipment.
If you’d like one for yourself, Delurey Sales of North Hoosick, NY. have them for $197,059, which is where Brattleboro is getting theirs.
This comes in under the $208,000 amount in the FY16 Capital Plan set aside for the purchase.
Grader Bids
What? A dump truck isn’t enough? You want a grader too?
You can get one, as Brattleboro’s DPW is doing, for $308,300 from Milton Cat in Richmond, VT. Ask for the Caterpillar 12M3 AWD Grader.
Note: The purchase of both the dump truck and grader by the DPW were approved by the selectboard. They did not approve your personal purchase of a dump truck or grader.
Class 2 Roadway Grant
The Brattleboro Selectboard accepted and appropriated a $73,944 grant from the Vermont Agency of Transportation to be used to pave .7 miles of TH6, Greenleaf Street. The grant requires a 20% match by the town.
Collective Bargaining Agreements: Firefighters, DPW, Administrative, & Non-Union
Many of Brattleboro’s town employees were given a 2% raise through new contracts with the Town, approved by the Brattleboro Selectboard.
Brattleboro firefighters receive a one-year extension and 2% pay raise. Brattleboro Department of Public Works employees receive a one-year extension and 2% pay raise. Town Administrative employees will receive a 2% pay raise per contract and one year extension of HSA contribution. All non-union employees will receive a 2% salary increase with HSA contribution.
Town Manager Elwell said one goal was to bring the contract negotiations into alignment. Brattleboro’s police department is on a different schedule, with contracts being updated in January of each year, and could be put on the same timeline in the future.
Due to changes in health care laws and norms for paying employees, the contracts were limited to one-year extensions. Elwell explained that more complex changes to Brattleboro’s health care benefits could better serve employees and taxpayers, if the town is given time to look into available options and changing laws.
“My concern was that we’d make bold assumptions about things we didn’t know much about,” said Elwell, and the town would arrive at an unrealistic outcome. Elwell said he wanted to want to be both fair and proper.
Additional meetings with insurance advisors and experts are planned for later in the year, and health insurance benefits will be a major issue for future negotiations.
David Schoales was impressed with the tone set by the new Town Manager, saying that throughout the contract process Elwell had consistently looked for fair ways to approach the contracts.
Committee Appointments
Many appointments were made to a wide variety of Town Committees. Those appointed will be notified.
Barbaric
So, if a dog owner does not buy a new license for their pet that animal can be destroyed? This seems like a better solution than, I don’t know…maybe imposing fines on the owners? I can’t imagine that the Humane Society would be in favor of euthanizing an animal because it’s owners neglected to get a proper license. Or would the police just go to the dog’s home and shoot him in their yard?
What a barbaric policy. And one Selectboard member “hates this”? Well, if you hate the policy don’t approve it. Find a better solution for overdue dog licenses.Let a little compassion and common sense enter into the decision making process.
First of all in defense of
First of all in defense of the SB member that “hates this”. It’s existing law, not a matter of approving a policy so the SB member can “hate it” as much as they want to without fault.
Secondly we have a no kill shelter, they are not going to get involved in this.
Third if the punishment needs to be horrifically punitive then perhaps the dog owners, not the dogs, should be shot.
Fourth, LISTEN TO SCOT BAROFSKY. I think it’s genius to turn this NEA final section over to the museum. But why would we want to listen to one of the only downtown merchants whose shown years and years of wise moves so that they are perhaps the longest existing business downtown.
And he’s right, get it done NOW and stop all this nonsense. If the artists putting forth projects need more time to muse over what they would do then perhaps they aren’t realistic candidates in this situation. I’ve read over the NEA paperwork on this grant project and it is quite possible that Borofsky is correct and this extension could kill the project.
Personally from what I’ve seen of the work of this committee I have great faith in the museum being able to make a wiser selection from among a wide scope of proposals extending beyond the visual arts.
Perhaps Mr. Wilmerding would like to enlighten us as what qualifications the committee members have that make them better at this than the museum. I see nothing but more of the same . . . months of arguing and bickering with no decent choices made.
As for discussions of right and left brain thinkers when discussing deadlines and this process, I think this is exactly what is why this has been a big mess. Drop all the right brain left brain discussing and just get the thing done.
I find this right brain left brain stuff irritating and nonsensical. There are artists who make art and meet deadlines and are organized and there are those who make art and miss deadlines and aren’t organized. I think this committee is so locked into discussing they’ve forgotten how to do.
Couple notes.
You typically can”t turn grants over to other entities. That looks VERY unprofessional, and would probably end it right there. (And Scot isn’t a merchant. He’s a mural painter.) Folks at the museum have already been involved and will likely continue to choose to participate. They are allowed to help.
As for the dogs, it is the law, but we never actually kill any. It is a weird law, and I also find it rather barbaric. It comes from a time when dogs roamed a bit more freely, and farms needed a bit more protection.
Was the town issued the grant
Was the town issued the grant or the committee?
At any rate I’m batting zero today anyway, must be thinking with the back side of my brain. Had my Borofsky’s mixed up definitely. However merchant or mural painter I think he has a point, particularly in reference to getting this thing done asap. I hope the museum people have a lot of weight in what will be decided. Personally I would hope to see something permanent rather than a performance or some such thing, although maybe an event would be okay too? Heck I don’t know what would be best, that’s why I hope there’s some solid thinking amongst the decider-ers.
Town's grant, town's responsibility
Town of Brattleboro received the grant.
That was my point- that the
That was my point- that the negligent dog owners need to be punished not the dogs. I know that we have a no kill shelter which would mean – if this outdated and useless law was to be enforced it would mean someone( police? Animal control officer?) .would be responsible for carrying out this horrific law. We like to fine people for just about anything in this town so why not fine dog owners who are reluctant to license their pets.
I think there is a fine. Or a
I think there is a fine. Or a late fee.
$50,000 for a single art project
…sounds great! Fortunately, I have the perfect project and I will propose it. One that will serve the arts community as well as the townspeople for many years to come. I have no doubt that when they see my proposal, they’ll agree that it rocks, and choose my project. I would do this project for less than $50,000 but to be paid that handsomely for anything would be super cool. 😉
I'm having a difficult time
I’m having a difficult time digesting the spending of roughly $500,000.00 for two (2) pieces of equipment for the DPW. Yea, I’m sure DPW was able to justify it.
Is it just coincidental that, after cutting everything they could cut from the budget (so they say), they’re able to come up with just about the same amount of money that they “save” from PAYT and approve spending about the same amount for these 2 pieces of equipment?
Unbelievable that we cannot subsidize PAYT bags for our low income residents but we can afford $500,000.00 for 2 pieces of gotta have DPW equipment.
How can we ever afford renovated, or whatever, facilities for our Police and Fire Depts when we refuse to cut back on current expenses rather than continually add to them?
I’ve lived in this town many years and keep telling myself it can’t get any worse but guess what………..it does. Really sad and so depressing.
Approval Needed
“Note: The purchase of both the dump truck and grader by the DPW were approved by the selectboard. They did not approve your personal purchase of a dump truck or grader.”
lol
I think we should all show up at the next SB meeting and during the Public Participation section request SB approval for our own personal heavy equipment purchases, as per this post.
Also, carrottop, if low-income folks were to receive subsidized PAYT bags then they would have no incentive to reduce the amount of their trash. If they can afford to buy what becomes trash, can they not afford to dispose of it in an environmentally sensitive manner? Our oceans are filling with trash because people refuse to ‘pay’ to dispose of it properly, and billions of those people are much poorer than all but the homeless in Brattleboro. If we are going to subsidize anything, I recommend it be fresh, locally grown, unpackaged fruits and vegetables.
Do you think that because
Do you think that because someone is poor they aren’t capable of recognizing that we need to make changes in the way we desecrate the environment? Paying $3.00 for a plastic bag will, over a year’s time, take money away from other essential needs like electric bills or medical co-pays but with a small discounted price people would be able to do both: be environmentally responsible and pay our bills. Do you think that none of the thousands of Brattleboro residents who currently live on a fixed or low income recycle or compost or pay attention to packaging? That none of us are intelligent enough or organized enough or compassionate enough to actually care about what human beings are doing to the world. Incentive has nothing to do with having a sliding scale price structure for PAYT. What about families who use disposable diapers? You can’t recycle those and a week’s worth of diapers takes up a lot of space in one of those expensive trash bags. What about households that have elderly or ill members who use incontinence supplies? Your claim that free bags would take away the incentive for poor people to recycle is ignorant and based on the small mind conservative view point of what a “poor” persons thinks and does.
Do a little research and perhaps open up your mind just a teeny little bit and you might see that low income doesn’t mean stupid or lazy or incapable. It just means we can’t afford $3.00 for a damn plastic bag.
Thank you
This sums up so much of what I have been thinking but haven’t managed to get into print. Thank you for stating this so clearly and pointing out the obvious: that being poor is quite simply about a lack of money. Everything else is a matter of assumption, often unquestioned.
$ is a powerful incentive
Money has been shown time and again to be a powerful “carrot” rather than a “stick” when it comes to modifying human behavior. With PAYT-like programs, the majority of participants are going to try to maximize the use of the bag and find way to reduce the trash that goes in their bag.
From what I can see, Brattleburghers are being given an additional way to save on bags by participating in a compost program. It is up to the participant whether they elect to compose or trash it. Personally, I see the compost part as being very forward thinking.
Forward thinking or not
Forward thinking or not composting is not an option for people who live in apartments with very small kitchens or for people who have mobility issues or health problems that require them to use a walker or cane. PAYT is not a “one size fits all” situation and it’s never going to be no matter how much the praises of composting is sung.
Response to KAlden's Accusations
“Do you think that because someone is poor they aren’t capable of recognizing that we need to make changes in the way we desecrate the environment?”
No, I didn’t say that.
“Paying $3.00 for a plastic bag will, over a year’s time, take money away from other essential needs like electric bills or medical co-pays but with a small discounted price people would be able to do both: be environmentally responsible and pay our bills.”
Having watched the PAYT proposal develop over the last few years I am pretty sure that our tax rate will, if not decrease, then increase less in direct proportion to the fees that are part of PAYT. Renters will not be affected, as their garbage is covered by their landlords.
“Do you think that none of the thousands of Brattleboro residents who currently live on a fixed or low income recycle or compost or pay attention to packaging? That none of us are intelligent enough or organized enough or compassionate enough to actually care about what human beings are doing to the world.”
Unfortunately, most people change behavior much more readily based on personal gain or loss than they do based on altruistic care for others or the environment. Statistics bear this out. Watch the garbage rate plummet in the weeks ahead and you will see this point born out. There are many people in town who act with the long term interest of the planet in mind, but we are a vast miority. Look at the proportion of bicyclists to car drivers.
“Incentive has nothing to do with having a sliding scale price structure for PAYT.”
I guess I disagree. People should pay for the true, long-term costs of the products they use. If this were the case there would be no nuclear power, or coal, and we would all live much more locally and sustainably.
“What about families who use disposable diapers? You can’t recycle those and a week’s worth of diapers takes up a lot of space in one of those expensive trash bags.”
I don’t think disposable diapers are sustainable. In other communities I’ve seen there are diaper services that function quite well.
“What about households that have elderly or ill members who use incontinence supplies?”
Just because someone is elderly or ill doesn’t mean that they are destitute and can’t afford to pay the true, long-term cost of something.
“Your claim that free bags would take away the incentive for poor people to recycle is ignorant and based on the small mind conservative view point of what a “poor” persons thinks and does.”
Now, now, KAlden, there’s no need to get nasty. You & I disagree. That’s fine. My viewpoint is not based in a conservative political stance, but rather protracted observation into human nature and a lifetime of ruminations on what it will take to save the planet.
“Do a little research and perhaps open up your mind just a teeny little bit and you might see that low income doesn’t mean stupid or lazy or incapable. It just means we can’t afford $3.00 for a damn plastic bag.”
I will refrain from responding to your attack here, except to say that I live on a fraction of what you do.
Response to Will Stomp' s inaccuracies
You said ” if low income folks receive free bags they will have no incentive to reduce their trash”. How about the same incentive that other people have: that it’s the right thing to do and something that we all must do?
“Renters will not be affected as their garbage pickup is covered by their landlord’s” Wrong again. While there may be a few landlords who are helping to absorb the cost of PAYT for their tenants most landlords are not. So, a service that was once included in rent is now an additional cost for renters.
“There are some people who act with the long term interest of the planet in mind but we are a minority”. I’m pretty sure that part of that “minority” you speak of includes some people who live below the poverty line.
“In other communities I’ve seen there are diaper services that work quite well”.
Spoken like someone who has probably never had two kids in diapers at the same time. Do you have any idea what a diaper service costs? Or that with cloth diapers you also need to buy and use diaper covers which is not only an additional expense but need to be laundered frequently.
“Just because someone is elderly or I’ll doesn’t mean they are destitute and can’t afford to pay the true, long term cost of something”. No, it doesn’t mean they are destitute but it probably means that they are living on some form of Social Security and the expense of out of pocket medical supplies vastly depletes whatever income they have. Adding an additional cost of having to now pay to dispose of their supplies just makes that income even smaller.
Your viewpoint goes far beyond someone just “ruminating on what it will take to save the planet”. You obviously have no real recognition of how even the slightest increase in costs can be detrimental to someone living on a fixed income. Your comments and insinuations about poor people are not only insulting but inaccurate and ignorant. And, since you have absolutely no idea what my annual income is it’s a ridiculous for you to unequivocally state that you live on less than I do. You have no way of knowing that. There is a lot that goes on in the lives of a large percentage of town residents- those who exist on incomes totally inadequate for the costs of today’s world- and you obviously have a twisted viewpoint of those lives. When you make blanket statements that say reduced cost bags would not give “poor folks” incentive to do the right thing then you are making a judgement call. You really should try to only talk about things you actually know something about.
.
The Great Diaper Debate, And What About Depends?
Weighing in on the diaper debate. While disposables aren’t great environmentally actually up to the recent innovation of more efficient washing machines cloth diapers actually took a much bigger toll overall as far as being “green” than disposables. Calculations of the damage done by the multiple laundering showed that disposables actually had less impact environmentally.
Recently this has changed a bit, there is one study (compared to multiple studies) based in the UK that says that the effect is about the same now due to the making of more efficient washing machines. How accurate that one study is could be debatable. So for now it would be wrong to make a statement that disposables are less “green” than using cotton washable diapers.They are either about the same as far as “green-ness” or disposables might still actually take less of a toll energy-wise.
Also suggesting the use of diaper service certainly does indicate someone who has never been in the position of inquiring about one or who has oodles of money to throw around. Also diaper services are likely to be much less “green” than home laundering which is where the studies have indicated an improvement in the footprint of using cotton diapers.
Not to mention the wicking abilities of disposables leads to a much greater incidence of diaper rash. Now how do you feel about Depends?. We probably go through quite a few of those here considering our age demographic. Should the oldsters start wearing cotton diapers also?
In the great debate of cloth
In the great debate of cloth vs disposable diapers we also have to factor in the negative environment footprint caused by whatever vehicles are being used to deliver cloth diapers – most likely a van or truck. Although Will might know of companies in ” other communities” that deliver cloth diapers by bicycle. Or horseback…wouldn’t that be great!
In terms of the Depends scenario it seems from Will’ s response to my post it’s okay for people to use disposable incontinence supplies if they are willing to “pay the true cost” of using them. Which would mean not only the cost of the supplies but the additional $100 -$150 annually to dispose of them.
I’m not sure I totally agree with disposable diapers causing more diaper rashes.
I raised 4 kids- two of them wore cloth diapers- two wore disposables and I can’t say I remember much difference in the frequency or severity of my babies’ s diaper rashes. I think it probably depends on how often the diapers are changed.
diapers, the debate and the canard
Oh yeah, the great diaper debate. Do a little resesrch, and you will see that diposable diapers make up by weight about 2-4% of the landfill, depending on who to believe. Of course, a lot of this is put out by the cloth and disposable diaper folks themselves, but suffice to say, both are wasteful to the enviroment. Cloth diapers use a lot of water not only for washing but growing the cotton. And then there is the residue runoff of the detergent to clean them. And yes the delivery of them as KAlden points out, but that is kind of cancelled out by the truck that delivers the disposable diapers. Disposable diapers also use a lot of energy to produce them and of course, sit in our dumps after use.
So, what’s the canard? Disposable diapers still make up a very small portion of our waste stream. There are many, many other things that take up space in our landfill and those can be recycle or composted. That’s why the local PAYT has the compost program in place because it represents a far larger componant of the wastestream. Same with plastic and other packing materials.
“You can’t have business as usual. There can’t be an entirely painless transition from this throw away society to a conservation-minded society. I believe that as people start to understand the impact of their behavior, they will be willing to make adjustments.” Governor Madeline Kunin
A little TBT there for all of you! Remember when the Gov said this back in 1989? That’s when she and many others wanted to ban disposable diapers in Vermont. She was pushing for shared responsibilty to combat the state/nation’s environmental problems. This was something back then folks expected out of Vermont. But it is hard to believe that recycling is just now becoming a reality after 26 years and it had to be mandated by law, long after many many other communities have enacted their own programs.
Wow.
If this is the way people on iBrattleboro handle differences of opinion, I’m out.
Oh, sorry. It's okay for you
Oh, sorry. It’s okay for you to make blanket judgemental remarks about entire groups of people – based on nothing but your own limited knowledge but when you get some strong words back you can’t take it? I’m good without having to read any of your small minded posts. Have a wonderful day.
Harmony Lot
The opening statement about Harmony Lot was interesting to me. Twice, Gartenstein mentioned that the selectboard could choose another downtown organization if it wanted, and he seemed to imply that the proposed partnership between the Brooks House and downtown alliance regarding Harmony Lot would be scrutinized closely.
It seemed to this viewer as if some other piece of important information was missing. I suppose we’ll hear about it at the next meeting.
I don’t really care if it re-opens to car traffic or not, or than if it does re-open, there is the traffic problem of car drivers heading up High Street stopping to turn, across traffic, into the lot. Having the tunnel closed to cars has made for much smoother driving at that spot, and is probably safer for people walking through the tunnel.
Letting cars through again wouldn’t be the end of the world, and would be convenient for those driving down High into town. It would be nice to think of some way to block turns going up High, though.